- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Are MMOs dying?
Posted on 2/16/12 at 9:11 am to Muppet
Posted on 2/16/12 at 9:11 am to Muppet
quote:
You stand there and autoattack until your "TP" reaches a high enough level to use a special attack that does more damage. That's right - most of your leveling experience consists of attacking an enemy and then waiting to press another key.
You can't compare XIV to XI without comparing the battle systems. XI operated on the same "auto attack, build TP, use weaponskill." XIV, however, is undeniably faster paced but still manages to stay away from "number sequence battle" like any WoW clone. I feel this allows more strategic flow to battle, which is why I feel XI proved to have the deepest battle system in an MMO ever.
But to address the waiting game... Auto attacking while waiting for your TP bar to fill, in this case. Perhaps if you're only playing the early levels, sure there isn't much variety in combat just like any other RPG/MMO. But having several classes above level 30, just standing and waiting for my TP bar to fill doesn't happen... ever.
quote:
The world also feels lifeless and samey compared to other Square Enix creations, especially Final Fantasy XI. It's like they copied and pasted the entire world and gave everything different names.
Yep. Which is something that has been addressed plenty of times in interviews and letters from the producer. The world is lacking in variety of locations, unique vistas, etc. This is nothing new. SE has shown plenty of evidence clearly showing the world redesign in 2.0. Is the world in it's current state detrimental to the game? Nah. It is going to change.
quote:
still half-broken piece of junk like FFXIV
I'm beginning to think I should be saying "To each his own." Playing the game even in it's current state, I don't see "half-broken." I don't see minorly broken. I see a game where what I want to do works fine.
Posted on 2/16/12 at 12:58 pm to electrikALIEN
Look, 2.0 may very well put the game on par with some of the other games on the market, but it hasn't come to fruition yet.
All I'm saying is that I think it still sucks in its current state, and there are better MMOs to spend money on until it sees the "renaissance" you are so sure of.
All I'm saying is that I think it still sucks in its current state, and there are better MMOs to spend money on until it sees the "renaissance" you are so sure of.
Posted on 2/16/12 at 1:16 pm to Muppet
quote:
Look, 2.0 may very well put the game on par with some of the other games on the market, but it hasn't come to fruition yet.
All I'm saying is that I think it still sucks in its current state, and there are better MMOs to spend money on until it sees the "renaissance" you are so sure of.
Problem is, like this thread discussed, most of those MMOs are progressively becoming more and more stale. They become the same Alliance vs. Horde, PVE/PVP mashup with the same gameplay mechanics. Everyone is looking for that WoW Killer. FFXIV is not that game, because it's not WoW-like.
Posted on 2/16/12 at 1:36 pm to electrikALIEN
WoW is stale, but not because of its fundamental mechanics. I would still play Burning Crusade or even Wrath right now.
SWTOR has a lot to offer as well, even though it doesn't feel like a complete game quite yet.
I personally find the hotkey-mashing, fastest fingers, talent-mixing system much more enjoyable than that of Final Fantasy XI or XIV (I was a veteran of XI from day one until around 2007 before I started playing better games). That isn't to say either system is optimal. I'd like to see something different.
SWTOR has a lot to offer as well, even though it doesn't feel like a complete game quite yet.
I personally find the hotkey-mashing, fastest fingers, talent-mixing system much more enjoyable than that of Final Fantasy XI or XIV (I was a veteran of XI from day one until around 2007 before I started playing better games). That isn't to say either system is optimal. I'd like to see something different.
Posted on 2/16/12 at 1:46 pm to Muppet
quote:
Muppet
I am going to go off subject for a second, cause honestly there is a reason I don't bash WoW clones, I just say I dislike them 100%, because different strokes for different folks and all that jazz, and bashing your games is childish, but you seem to have a personal vendetta again the FF MMO series.. but whatever it's cool.
Anyways: Why is everyone so pumped about Guild Wars 2 exactly? The first game was incredibly boring, repetative and downright clunky.. and the 2nd one will more than likely have a HUGE "pay to get this" system..? What makes people actually think this game is going to be the savior for all?
Posted on 2/16/12 at 1:58 pm to BaddestAndvari
People who like Final Fantasy MMOs just annoy me, like fans of communism or fans of Enya.
Not really. This is just a forum to discuss the merits of different games, and I happen to strongly dislike (recent) Final Fantasy and Square Enix in general. If you want to talk about what's stale, the franchise in general needs a breath of fresh air. I just don't think FFXIV is a game you should be recommending that people spend money on, at least for the time being. Buyer beware, though, and all that.
Not really. This is just a forum to discuss the merits of different games, and I happen to strongly dislike (recent) Final Fantasy and Square Enix in general. If you want to talk about what's stale, the franchise in general needs a breath of fresh air. I just don't think FFXIV is a game you should be recommending that people spend money on, at least for the time being. Buyer beware, though, and all that.
Posted on 2/16/12 at 2:02 pm to Muppet
quote:
People who like Final Fantasy MMOs just annoy me, like fans of communism or fans of Enya.
Posted on 2/16/12 at 2:10 pm to Muppet
quote:
or fans of Enya.
At least communism without human involvement is the best form of government..
Now answer my damn question about Guild Wars 2!
Posted on 2/16/12 at 2:11 pm to BaddestAndvari
As far as Guild Wars 2, arenanet seems to be making a radical departure from the original. They've promised a lot of innovation- dismantling of the holy trinity, a real "radiant" questing system where your decisions actually matter and have material impact on the environment, truly unique class mechanics, etc. They could always not deliver on any of these things, but they at least have the kind of mold-breaking attitude it's going to take to usher in a new generation.
I'm not quite skeptical, but I am anxious to see Beta.
I'm not quite skeptical, but I am anxious to see Beta.
Posted on 2/16/12 at 2:15 pm to Muppet
I honestly just wish everyone didn't feel like they have to copy WoW to win "the new MMO of the decade" award.. WoW is that, because WoW is the original, everything is will just end up being looked at through WoW colored glasses... Bioware had the chance and they squandered it!
Here's hoping Guild Wars 2 doesn't try to copy WoW in any way..
Here's hoping Guild Wars 2 doesn't try to copy WoW in any way..
Posted on 2/16/12 at 2:18 pm to BaddestAndvari
quote:
The first game was incredibly boring, repetative and downright clunky..
Early on yes, until they got their feet. Had the best small-scale RPG PvP out there. And probably still does.
quote:
and the 2nd one will more than likely have a HUGE "pay to get this" system..?
GW nor GW2 are fFtP. ( Fake free to play, you know like LOTRO, who shall forever rot now. Such a waste). I only ever bought "expansions," which total a lot less money than I ever spent on EQ or City of Heroes. Or LOTRO and DAoC. (My other long-tenured MMO's).
quote:Breaking the trinity for one. Interesting battle mechanics like dodge and self-rezzes for all. Just the overall environment and goals of the project. Like Muppet said, they can miss on a lot, but they can also hit on a lot of those things.
What makes people actually think this game is going to be the savior for all?
This post was edited on 2/16/12 at 2:46 pm
Posted on 2/16/12 at 2:28 pm to BaddestAndvari
Being a nearly lifelong Lord British fanboy, I hope Richard Garriott returns at some point to mastermind another fantastic MMORPG. Ultima Online and City of Heroes are two of the best and most unique ones ever. Lineage wasn't too bad either.
Innovation that moves a genre doesn't always have to be entirely "new". It could be refurbished old concepts that we forgot we loved. Star Wars: Galaxies had a ton of amazing features prior to the NGE that I'd love to see again. Player-created content especially has taken a hit over the past few years, with developers feeling the need to build walls around the sandbox.
Innovation that moves a genre doesn't always have to be entirely "new". It could be refurbished old concepts that we forgot we loved. Star Wars: Galaxies had a ton of amazing features prior to the NGE that I'd love to see again. Player-created content especially has taken a hit over the past few years, with developers feeling the need to build walls around the sandbox.
This post was edited on 2/16/12 at 2:29 pm
Posted on 2/16/12 at 2:47 pm to Muppet
What exactly was the reason for soe destroying galaxies? It is the best mmo I played, the community supported it well but soe had to mess with it more.was there that many people complaining about the combat to overhaul everything?
Posted on 2/16/12 at 2:48 pm to Muppet
quote:
Being a nearly lifelong Lord British fanboy, I hope Richard Garriott returns at some point to mastermind another fantastic MMORPG. Ultima Online and City of Heroes are two of the best and most unique ones ever. Lineage wasn't too bad either.
Never played Lineage, but I agree. Although I ditched UO early for EQ.
quote:
Innovation that moves a genre doesn't always have to be entirely "new". It could be refurbished old concepts that we forgot we loved. Star Wars: Galaxies had a ton of amazing features prior to the NGE that I'd love to see again. Player-created content especially has taken a hit over the past few years, with developers feeling the need to build walls around the sandbox.
This. Too much theme park design in MMO's right now, they've constricted themselves since SWG.
I wish EVE had a more palatable setting, they do have the right design philosophies.
Posted on 2/16/12 at 2:58 pm to burgeman
quote:
What exactly was the reason for soe destroying galaxies?
Well, there are a few theories. Some say the subscribership was steadily declining because people purchased the game wanting to play a Jedi and quit because they couldn't handle the grind (and it was a hell of a grind, I'll give them that. Not much in any MMO anymore takes several months to accomplish). Some say that Sony just wanted to make the game more combat-oriented so that it could be marketed to players of other games rather than just the esoteric niche of Star Wars obsessors. Both of these of course can be traced back to the same thing: concern about sustainable revenue.
Here's what John Smedley, the one largely responsible, had to say about it after the initial backlash:
quote:
Obviously the NGE has stirred up a lot of strong feelings among the SWG playerbase. There is no denying these changes have upset some of our players. While I can certainly understand and respect these feelings, I assure you we approached them with a longer term strategy in mind and with the best of intentions. That strategy is to lay the foundation for a longer term vision of the game that will keep people playing for the long haul. Yes, many of our long time players are upset... and we do understand why. We're not sitting in our offices thinking of ways to upset our paying customers.. we're trying to bring Star Wars Galaxies to a broader audience to make sure that it's viable for the long haul.
Why?
Many of you ask "Why did you have to make such a sweeping change rather than just fixing the things that were wrong?" - well, to put it bluntly - everyone had different ideas of what we needed to fix. Trying to balance 34 professions, and add compelling content to make everyone happy proved to be a very large challenge. Many design decisions made early on in the game's creation were boxing the team in to the point that we were never going to be able to really make this game rise to the level it needs to as both a great experience AND as a business. We have consistently kept the SWG team as one of the largest teams within SOE (around 70 people). Even with a team that size getting new content done along with maintaining the live game, along with developing new systems for SWG just proved to be tougher than it should have been. We've got a lot of experience doing MMO's, and SWG has always proven to be the game that was the toughest for us to make changes to. So, along with our partners at LucasArts we did a very lengthy look at just what the fundamental issues with SWG were. We spoke to many of you, read the forums and conducted numerous focus group tests with both existing players, people who have played MMO's before (but not SWG) and people that haven't ever tried MMO's before.
The consistent feedback we recieved through this research showed us where the problems were. Here are the top 3 issues:
1) Difficult to get into - too complicated. People didn't understand what all the professions were, and the interface was just plain hard.
2) Combat wasn't exciting enough
3) Game wasn't "Star Warsy" enough. The professions issue also showed itself here.
In order to make the changes neccessary we examined just what we would have to change, and quickly came to the realization that reducing the number of professions was the single most important thing we had to do. Many of the professions overlapped and when we looked at what would make a really fun Star Wars style game, we came up with the profession list that's in the game now. Equally important to making SWG a viable game in the long term was addressing the fact that combat just wasn't fun enough. I recognize that some of you will disagree here - and I hope you can recognize this is a very subjective thing.. but the research we did was extremely clear on this point - the old combat system wasn't up to snuff. We tried different things and landed on the "fast action" style of combat that's in the game now.
We couldn't make changes of this magnitude without changing some things that people loved - creature handlers for example are among the most upset. This was an example of something that was near and dear to people (including myself btw). It's one of the coolest parts of the game. It's one that's only gone in the short term - we'll be bringing it back in a different form in the near future once we work through the consequences of how we can make this core system work within the new framework. It won't be a profession in and of itself, but something people can do as part of the existing professions.
One last thing I'd like to discuss in this explanation is the business end of things. Many of you question the logic of the decision to do this NGE.. stating that many of the existing players will quit because we're changing the game so much. From our standpoint we have to look at the game for the long haul. EverQuest is will be 7 years old on March 16th. We HAVE to think that long-term. With the game the way it was we knew we would never be able to attract enough people to really keep SWG viable as a business. It certainly would have kept some portion of our existing playerbase for a good long time, and we would have put out new expansions and new content as well as fixing bugs.. but it wouldn't have appealed to the really large Star Wars fanbase out there.. and frankly over time the existing userbase would have churned out as happens in any game like this. We just didn't have the game we needed to have if we're going to really grow this userbase. It might surprise you to know that after the first combat upgrade, we actually added new subs. We took a step in the right direction, but it just wasn't enough. So what we're doing here is obviously risky.. we're betting that we can make this game a whole lot more fun to our existing userbase AND make it appealing enough so that we can grow that userbase in a major way. Right now I think it's fair to say we have work to do on both ends. I hope you understand that we absolutely value each and every player. You pay the bills around here, and that's not something we are forgetting. None of us like seeing people cancel..If you think this change is about "acceptable losses for a bigger goal", that's simply not the case.. nor is it how we view things. We have a clear plan to make this game a whole lot more fun, for everyone.. and that's the gamble we're making.. that we can pull this off and get you, our players to help us make this the Star Wars game we all want.
TL;DR: We tried to fix what wasn't broken to cater to a larger demographic and failed to accomplish any of our goals because we had no idea what we were doing.
This post was edited on 2/16/12 at 3:02 pm
Posted on 2/16/12 at 3:11 pm to Muppet
quote:
TL;DR: We tried to fix what wasn't broken to cater to a larger demographic and failed to accomplish any of our goals because we had no idea what we were doing.
The bane of many a MMO. LOTRO, Warhammer, etc.
Posted on 2/16/12 at 3:16 pm to Muppet
I read it all, I think the original galaxies was viable long term but I assume the subscriptions weren't there. At what point did wow appear on the horizon? I always thought soe wanted to mimic wow and grab subscriptions that way. But what do I know, I dont remember much from those days.
Posted on 2/16/12 at 3:38 pm to Muppet
I like that there is a thread for me to talk about something other than CoD on this Board.. good lord it's bad here. 
Posted on 2/16/12 at 4:04 pm to burgeman
quote:
I read it all, I think the original galaxies was viable long term but I assume the subscriptions weren't there. At what point did wow appear on the horizon? I always thought soe wanted to mimic wow and grab subscriptions that way. But what do I know, I dont remember much from those days.
Sony is working on a new MMO called Everquest Next. Not to much is known on it yet.
this is what SOE said
quote:
"So you can see there's a lot to wrestle with as we begin laying the foundation for EverQuest 'Next.' As I write this, we have concept artists and game designers working hard in our studio-taking the lessons of the past, the best parts of the present and the most promising ideas for the future-to bring the world of Norrath to a new generation of players, as well as the dedicated legions of fans who made the EverQuest franchise timeless. I hope we'll see you there."
This post was edited on 2/16/12 at 4:07 pm
Popular
Back to top



2




