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re: Why are Ox tails called Ox tails?

Posted on 11/3/11 at 9:59 pm to
Posted by CITWTT
baton rouge
Member since Sep 2005
31765 posts
Posted on 11/3/11 at 9:59 pm to
Do you think that Italians/Romans ate the NEW livestock? Veal is a "modern" food concept in the time line. The "fatted calf(read cow)" might ring a bell to put context on it.
Posted by tigeryat
God's Country
Member since Oct 2005
2951 posts
Posted on 11/3/11 at 10:22 pm to
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fatted calf is a metaphor or symbol of festive celebration and rejoicing for someone's long-awaited return. It derives from the parable of the prodigal son in the New Testament. In biblical times, people would often keep at least one piece of livestock that was fed a special diet to fatten it up, thus making it more flavorful when prepared as a meal. Slaughtering this livestock was to be done on rare and special occasions. Thus when the prodigal son returns, the father "kills the fatted calf" to show that the celebration is out of the ordinary.
Posted by AreJay
Member since Aug 2005
4186 posts
Posted on 11/4/11 at 2:09 am to
quote:

Do you think that Italians/Romans ate the NEW livestock? Veal is a "modern" food concept in the time line. The "fatted calf(read cow)" might ring a bell to put context on it.


don't see why a fatted calf = a cow. also i'm sure the poor people didn't eat the new livestock, but i think veal was traditionally a special occasion (aka fatted calf) or upper class/royalty type thing in the old days.
Posted by Martini
Near Athens
Member since Mar 2005
49307 posts
Posted on 11/4/11 at 6:04 am to
Well back in those days I was just a kid but I vaguely remember my father saying, when I returned, " microwave some Hot Pockets" however more of a clear memory to me is a slow braised veal shank in either a red or brown sauce depending on who is preparing it.

But more importantly, if we are venturing back a few years, I always wondered if when Moses parted the Red Sea did he look at the Israelites and say "TA DA!"

And while we are at it since they wandered the desert for forty years don't you think at least a few of the Israelites would have, after a few years, say "this Moses doesn't know where the hell he's going."

I'm having the veal shank osso bucco for lunch today at Ruffinos. I called last night and they saved me some.
Posted by CITWTT
baton rouge
Member since Sep 2005
31765 posts
Posted on 11/4/11 at 7:47 am to
Veal is from a calf, an immature cow, a young pup. A fatted calf, as noted above is older, mature in state of growth/age.
Posted by dpd901
South Louisiana
Member since Apr 2011
7755 posts
Posted on 11/4/11 at 8:53 am to
quote:

Yes, the tail is the thing used for OB. Where are you eating it at that they are not using tail? OB is a very "smallish" circular medallion of meat with a vertabrae at its center, and a hole in the middle of the bone where the marrow once resided.



Fail.

I have been in the Foodservice Business for almost 20 years, including attending culinary school, and I work for one of the largest meat producers in the world. Ossco Bucco is traditionally Veal Shank, taken from the top of the thigh. Never once have I seen tail used in this application. Please link a reference to this.... Also, veal was until fairly recent times, peasant food, and considered less desirable than beef.
Posted by CITWTT
baton rouge
Member since Sep 2005
31765 posts
Posted on 11/4/11 at 8:57 am to
So now we are going to have a bitch slap fest as I too have played a bit in the business, I might have even studied a bit of history too.
Posted by LSUballs
RayVegas LA
Member since Feb 2008
39090 posts
Posted on 11/4/11 at 9:03 am to
quote:

I work for one of the largest meat producers in the world.


Do yall sell regular cow tails under the name Ox tail?
Posted by dpd901
South Louisiana
Member since Apr 2011
7755 posts
Posted on 11/4/11 at 9:03 am to
quote:

So now we are going to have a bitch slap fest as I too have played a bit in the business, I might have even studied a bit of history too.





No desire for an argument, but your postulation that tail is the traditional cut for Osso Bucco is just incorrect. It's simply not true. The translation of Osso Bucco is bone with a hole in the middle. The center of a vertebrae in the tail section would have very little marrow as it would have a spinal cord, nerves, ect... running through it. Marrow is inside of a bone, not in the hollow section that the vertebrae surrounds.

You also said "where the marrow used to reside" In Osso Bucco, the marrow is still in the shank bone when it is served. This is why they give you a marrow fork to get it out and eat it.

You are simply incorrect that Osso Bucco is prepared using tail sections. It's simply not correct. It's Shank. Period. That is true wether it's Veal, Pork, or Lamb.
This post was edited on 11/4/11 at 9:19 am
Posted by dpd901
South Louisiana
Member since Apr 2011
7755 posts
Posted on 11/4/11 at 9:08 am to
quote:

Do yall sell regular cow tails under the name Ox tail?


Yes. You do realize that Oxen are Bovine (Cow)? It usually refers to a castrated male, used as a draft animal.

But Oxtails today do come from any beef cattle. I don't think cows are used as draft animals in the US anymore, so there aren't many "oxen" to be had domestically.
This post was edited on 11/4/11 at 9:18 am
Posted by LSUballs
RayVegas LA
Member since Feb 2008
39090 posts
Posted on 11/4/11 at 9:24 am to
quote:

You do realize that Oxen are Bovine


Yes

quote:

I don't think cows are used as draft animals in the US anymore, so there aren't many "oxen" to be had domestically.


Exactly. Henry Ford and John Deere made the Ox obsolete. Now all we have is lazy arse cows. It just seems like borderline false advertisment to sell steer tail under an Ox tail heading. The heaviest thing that steer has hauled around is his balls, and eventually even that burden gets relieved. Let's call a spade a spade and a cow tail a cow tail. Don't feed me surimi and tell me it's jumbo lump, damn it.
This post was edited on 11/4/11 at 9:27 am
Posted by OTIS2
NoLA
Member since Jul 2008
51541 posts
Posted on 11/4/11 at 9:30 am to
quote:

The center of a vertebrae in the tail section would have very little marrow as it would have a spinal cord, nerves, ect... running through it. Marrow is inside of a bone, not in the hollow section that the vertebrae surrounds


...there's practically no marrow in the tail secton...it's part of the spinal column.
This post was edited on 11/4/11 at 9:31 am
Posted by dpd901
South Louisiana
Member since Apr 2011
7755 posts
Posted on 11/4/11 at 9:32 am to
LOL. I hear ya. I'll pass it along to the big dogs.

There's tons of misnomers in cuts of meat. The seafood industry is the worst at this.

a Speckled Trout isn't a trout. It's from the drum family.

A Chilean Sea Bass isn't a bass, It's a Patagonian Toothfish.

Posted by dpd901
South Louisiana
Member since Apr 2011
7755 posts
Posted on 11/4/11 at 9:35 am to
quote:

quote:
The center of a vertebrae in the tail section would have very little marrow as it would have a spinal cord, nerves, ect... running through it. Marrow is inside of a bone, not in the hollow section that the vertebrae surrounds


...there's practically no marrow in the tail secton...it's part of the spinal column.




Right... That's what I was trying to say. Marrow is located "inside" the walls of a bone. The hole in the center of a vertebrae allows the spinal column to pass through it.
Posted by Y.A. Tittle
Member since Sep 2003
107760 posts
Posted on 11/4/11 at 9:42 am to
quote:

No desire for an argument, but your postulation that tail is the traditional cut for Osso Bucco is just incorrect. It's simply not true. The translation of Osso Bucco is bone with a hole in the middle. The center of a vertebrae in the tail section would have very little marrow as it would have a spinal cord, nerves, ect... running through it. Marrow is inside of a bone, not in the hollow section that the vertebrae surrounds.


This is correct.
Posted by dpd901
South Louisiana
Member since Apr 2011
7755 posts
Posted on 11/4/11 at 10:27 am to
I'd still like to see a link from dude showing that tail is used for Osso Bucco.
Posted by Martini
Near Athens
Member since Mar 2005
49307 posts
Posted on 11/4/11 at 11:17 am to
I'd still like some recognition of my Moses observations. It took me awhile to steal that from Jim Gafigan.

He's also the Hot Pocket guy.
Posted by Count Chocula
Tier 5 and proud
Member since Feb 2009
63908 posts
Posted on 11/4/11 at 11:27 am to
Why the big smile?

Posted by dpd901
South Louisiana
Member since Apr 2011
7755 posts
Posted on 11/4/11 at 11:31 am to
quote:

CITWTT


Osso Bucco made from Ox Tail.... any response? Link? Admission of not being right?
Posted by CITWTT
baton rouge
Member since Sep 2005
31765 posts
Posted on 11/4/11 at 11:45 am to
Google Ox tail Osso Bucco. It is there, and that is what I have served. Yes, veal shanks are used in some recipes, but so too the tail. Is that admission enough. I do know what the F I have cooked and its appearance.
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