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Message
re: Switching to vegetarian diet
Posted on 1/9/17 at 1:14 pm to emboslice
Posted on 1/9/17 at 1:14 pm to emboslice
man some idiots in this thread and junky is doing work.
A) plant based protein is not complete protein from the amino acid profiles and yes your body can tell the difference.
B) you need a minimum of .8g/protein per pound of KG tissue to support the lean tissue you are carrying, if you want to build more muscle you need more protein.
C) many of yall are saying you feel better on a veggie based diet, well no shite because you are used to eating junk. Cut the processed crap out and look into intermittent fasting, as fasting has tons of health benifits.
D) anybody that switches to a plant based diet, don't come bitching about your hdl to ldl ratio in 6 months.
E) why is it that the people that usually recommend these diets are fat with no muscle?
F) china study is about as useful as the breakfast study. think a little.
now op I sympathize and understand your desire to cut out processed crap and feel better but you are going about it all worng. you are right about the chemicals and processed crap are making you feel bad.
I highly suggest you read the book, it starts with food and look into doing the whole30 diet and do it as intended with at a minimum organic and free range veggies and meat from the grocery store but preferablly from a local farm. I suggest you go onto eatwild.com and find a local farm and hit up local farmers markets. Buy seafood off the boat, catch or kill your own etc. Eat uncured bacon, eggs from free range chickens, free range pork, etc
You should become of the mindset that you want to know where your food is from and get to where you actually believe that quality is much more important than quantity. Also get of the mindset that fat is extremely good for you when it comes from an unprocessed source and the omega 3 vs omega 6 ratio is as nature intended. this will inturn help you feel better as your body becomes less inflamed due to the free radicals being diminsihed and your ratio of fats getting closer to how we need them. (in general we eat way too much omega 6 fats due to the way our normal meats are grain fed or at a minimum grain finished)
Not trying to be mean but most in this thread are giving terrible advice. and if anybody ever sites the china study, do the exact opposite of them. also please remember corralation does not equal causation.
A) plant based protein is not complete protein from the amino acid profiles and yes your body can tell the difference.
B) you need a minimum of .8g/protein per pound of KG tissue to support the lean tissue you are carrying, if you want to build more muscle you need more protein.
C) many of yall are saying you feel better on a veggie based diet, well no shite because you are used to eating junk. Cut the processed crap out and look into intermittent fasting, as fasting has tons of health benifits.
D) anybody that switches to a plant based diet, don't come bitching about your hdl to ldl ratio in 6 months.
E) why is it that the people that usually recommend these diets are fat with no muscle?
F) china study is about as useful as the breakfast study. think a little.
now op I sympathize and understand your desire to cut out processed crap and feel better but you are going about it all worng. you are right about the chemicals and processed crap are making you feel bad.
I highly suggest you read the book, it starts with food and look into doing the whole30 diet and do it as intended with at a minimum organic and free range veggies and meat from the grocery store but preferablly from a local farm. I suggest you go onto eatwild.com and find a local farm and hit up local farmers markets. Buy seafood off the boat, catch or kill your own etc. Eat uncured bacon, eggs from free range chickens, free range pork, etc
You should become of the mindset that you want to know where your food is from and get to where you actually believe that quality is much more important than quantity. Also get of the mindset that fat is extremely good for you when it comes from an unprocessed source and the omega 3 vs omega 6 ratio is as nature intended. this will inturn help you feel better as your body becomes less inflamed due to the free radicals being diminsihed and your ratio of fats getting closer to how we need them. (in general we eat way too much omega 6 fats due to the way our normal meats are grain fed or at a minimum grain finished)
Not trying to be mean but most in this thread are giving terrible advice. and if anybody ever sites the china study, do the exact opposite of them. also please remember corralation does not equal causation.
1
Posted on 1/9/17 at 1:16 pm to LSU alum wannabe
quote:
Overall it can't possibly be sustainable
Guess that was my point, I don't see it as a realistically sustainable diet for 95% of the population.
Also I don't see how veggies would be seen as a detriment to a diet.
Posted on 1/9/17 at 1:22 pm to thibtigerfan
junky didnt say that you should only eat meat he said it was possible. meats from healthy unprocessed animals and unprocessed veggies and fruti are great and are the core for the whole30 diet i recommended. But you can get away with only eating/drinking fat, just like you can only eating protien. look into fat fast and psmf. but these are just scientific approaches to fad dieting to strip fat off quickly without losing muscle.
overall though junky would agree with me a diet made up of unprocessed grass fed/free range meats/ free rangs eggs/ grass fed butter/ nuts, organic or locally sourced veggies/fruits is the way to go. Just understand for most you will not be able to over due on the meats/eggs/butter and green veggies but you can over do it on nuts and fruits.
Also after a while you can sub in sweet potatoes and regular potatoes and other starches that are not processed. This is a strict form of paleo and is the healthiest long term diet know to man. Can it be hard...hell yea but anything worth doing is going to be difficult.
overall though junky would agree with me a diet made up of unprocessed grass fed/free range meats/ free rangs eggs/ grass fed butter/ nuts, organic or locally sourced veggies/fruits is the way to go. Just understand for most you will not be able to over due on the meats/eggs/butter and green veggies but you can over do it on nuts and fruits.
Also after a while you can sub in sweet potatoes and regular potatoes and other starches that are not processed. This is a strict form of paleo and is the healthiest long term diet know to man. Can it be hard...hell yea but anything worth doing is going to be difficult.
Posted on 1/9/17 at 1:51 pm to lsu777
quote:
A) plant based protein is not complete protein from the amino acid profiles and yes your body can tell the difference
Hemp is a complete protein. Also you can combine two separate sources of plant protein in a meal to get a complete protein.
Posted on 1/9/17 at 1:51 pm to lsu777
Junky said you can get 100% of everything you need from meat.
I don't disagree with you. I can mostly agree with you on that, for the sake of knowing everyone is different and our opinions may be a tad different....
but that's not what junky said. If he would've said that, I probably would've taken him a bit more seriously.
And you can get all the protein you need while not eating meat... I'm sure you agree. Junky does not. I don't wanna speak for junky though. Neither should you
Hope the op figures out what works best for him
quote:you said ^
unprocessed grass fed/free range meats/ free rangs eggs/ grass fed butter/ nuts, organic or locally sourced veggies/fruits is the way to go
I don't disagree with you. I can mostly agree with you on that, for the sake of knowing everyone is different and our opinions may be a tad different....
but that's not what junky said. If he would've said that, I probably would've taken him a bit more seriously.
And you can get all the protein you need while not eating meat... I'm sure you agree. Junky does not. I don't wanna speak for junky though. Neither should you
Hope the op figures out what works best for him
Posted on 1/9/17 at 1:53 pm to genuineLSUtiger
I'm on this plan as well. You can def get enough protein from nuts, beans, etc.
I think all of America would be healthier if we limited our meat intake to 3-4X per week. How often in every meal is meat the main course? prior to learnin how to cook lentals and such it was at least 80%.
Also look up Daily dozen app, it gives you a little check list for all the different types of bean and veggies you are supposed to get if you do veggie diet 100%
I think all of America would be healthier if we limited our meat intake to 3-4X per week. How often in every meal is meat the main course? prior to learnin how to cook lentals and such it was at least 80%.
Also look up Daily dozen app, it gives you a little check list for all the different types of bean and veggies you are supposed to get if you do veggie diet 100%
Posted on 1/9/17 at 2:04 pm to mouton
hemp is one of the few and its going to be powdered based which is not going to be very satisfying.
and yep you can combine them but then you are usually eating processed crap like white rice etc, hell most beans are processed now a days.
and yep you can combine them but then you are usually eating processed crap like white rice etc, hell most beans are processed now a days.
Posted on 1/9/17 at 2:07 pm to lsu777
You can eat hemp hearts which are actually pretty tasty although they are expensive.
Posted on 1/9/17 at 2:10 pm to lsu777
Also the OP inquired about a vegetarian diet not vegan. It is very easy to get plenty of quality protein on a vegetarian diet. Vegan is a little more difficult. My wife and I did a vegetarian diet for about six months as an experiment and felt much better. I was eating a very clean diet previously.
Posted on 1/9/17 at 2:14 pm to emboslice
he is right, you can get every single thing you need from fatty meat. Kind of a crappy way to live for most people though as just meat get old quick.
and yea you can get all the protein you need not eating meat.
But let me ask ya'll some questions
1) what do you believe is unhealthy about a nice fatty cut of grass fed beef? Because the answer is its one of the healthiest foods on the planet
2) what are you trying to acchomplish by getting rid of meat?
if its health, you are going about it the wrong way. Why would you take out one of the few unprocessed items in your diet? now if you are going strictly plant based, veggie and you don't mind having very little muscle.
if its weight loss you are going about it the wrong way(think...close to 40% of calories in protein are used just to process the food by your body)
if its to cut down strain on your body from constantly processing food, you are going about it the wrong way.
i mean please tell what you are trying to achieve and I might be able to help. Now if its a problem with the way meat is killed and brought to the store.....well have at it and I can't say I disagree in most cases.
and yea you can get all the protein you need not eating meat.
But let me ask ya'll some questions
1) what do you believe is unhealthy about a nice fatty cut of grass fed beef? Because the answer is its one of the healthiest foods on the planet
2) what are you trying to acchomplish by getting rid of meat?
if its health, you are going about it the wrong way. Why would you take out one of the few unprocessed items in your diet? now if you are going strictly plant based, veggie and you don't mind having very little muscle.
if its weight loss you are going about it the wrong way(think...close to 40% of calories in protein are used just to process the food by your body)
if its to cut down strain on your body from constantly processing food, you are going about it the wrong way.
i mean please tell what you are trying to achieve and I might be able to help. Now if its a problem with the way meat is killed and brought to the store.....well have at it and I can't say I disagree in most cases.
Posted on 1/9/17 at 2:30 pm to lsu777
quote:
he is right, you can get every single thing you need from fatty meat.
What about micronutrients?
Posted on 1/9/17 at 2:31 pm to mouton
quote:
You can eat hemp hearts which are actually pretty tasty although they are expensive.
not sure what a hemp heart is or how a plant can have a heart but doesn't sound nearly as good as a duck heart.
and Im glad you felt better on a veggie diet. but eating clean doesn't mean eating correctly. Im not saying an vegetarian diet is neccessarly bad, especially if one eats fish and eggs, just don't understand the point and what one would be trying to acheive doing it.
I did an all protein shake diet for a while and I too felt better and lost a lot of fat but at the same time it was because I was cutting out most of the processed crap(not all as protein powder can be full of crap) and I was eating way below TDEE so I lost weight. So of course I felt better after losing the weight, doesn't mean that diet is a smart diet over the long haul.
Posted on 1/9/17 at 2:33 pm to mouton
i didn't say thrive lol i said what you needed. technically you can get plenty of the micronutrients you need from meat. i still don't think its smart to eat all meat just like i don't think its smart to do all meat.
I also think vitamins from whole foods and certain super food powders are something every one should take and same with quality fish oil.
I also think vitamins from whole foods and certain super food powders are something every one should take and same with quality fish oil.
Posted on 1/9/17 at 2:47 pm to lsu777
quote:
not sure what a hemp heart is or how a plant can have a heart
It is just hulled hemp seed. Tastes similar to pine nuts. They are good sprinkled on a salad or soup.
Posted on 1/9/17 at 6:09 pm to mouton
quote:
Also the OP inquired about a vegetarian diet not vegan. It is very easy to get plenty of quality protein on a vegetarian diet. Vegan is a little more difficult. My wife and I did a vegetarian diet for about six months as an experiment and felt much better. I was eating a very clean diet previously.
My fault, I think. I piped up about Dr. MacDougall who is essentially vegan and Essylstein who IS vegan. Their books and videos show that you can go all out Vegan if you chose to. The OP was asking for books and sources for diets. Hell follow theirs, and throw in a grilled chicken breast once in a while if the OP wants.
Posted on 1/9/17 at 7:36 pm to emboslice
All right, let us begin on why you shouldn't be vegetarian or vegan. This is based on biology...not ideology and pixie dust.
The first question I ask is do you have a Rumen?
Cellulose
- Let me answer this for you...you do not have a rumen. You cannot digest the fiber and cellulose the way a ruminant can.
What is a Ruminant?
How does the Rumen work?
So how are you going to absorb all those nutrients in those plants when a human doesn't even have the hardware to digest it?
Do you worry about your O3 to O6 ratios? you should. (lsu777's point D)... LINK
B12?
B12
Osteoporosis?
Vitamin D3
Let's not even start on cholesterol.
I could list more, and go on and on and on, but you wont read them. Theology has taken over, and I can only open eyes.
As I mentioned towards the top of this post - you do not have the antimony of a cow, nor a gorilla, nor a bison, nor a horse. These animals gut microbes covert the fiber into short chain fatty acids which they use for the majority of their energy intake ...basically.
To which...
Theology much?
Now, eggs and vegetarians, it is a start. Come on over to the dark side
I had to add one quote to whom I don't know to credit - "Beef is just concentrated grass."
The first question I ask is do you have a Rumen?
quote:
The reticulorumen is one of the few organs present in animals in which digestion of cellulose and other recalcitrant carbohydrates can proceed to any appreciable degree
Cellulose
quote:
Cellulose is an important structural component of the primary cell wall of green plants, many forms of algae and the oomycetes.
- Let me answer this for you...you do not have a rumen. You cannot digest the fiber and cellulose the way a ruminant can.
What is a Ruminant?
quote:
"Ruminants are mammals that are able to acquire nutrients from plant-based food by fermenting it in a specialized stomach prior to digestion, principally through microbial actions."
quote:
"One feature of ruminants is their continuously growing teeth. During grazing, the silica content in forage causes abrasion of the teeth. This abrasion is compensated for by continuous tooth growth throughout the ruminant's life, as opposed to humans or other nonruminants, whose teeth stop growing after a particular age. Most ruminants do not have upper incisors; instead, they have a thick dental pad to thoroughly chew plant-based food."
How does the Rumen work?
quote:...in a nutshell...
"Carbohydrate digestion in the rumen - When food is eaten by the cow, the nutrients are initially in the form of carbohydrates, proteins, and fats…Plant tissue dry matter is about 75% carbohydrate. Microbial fermentation breaks carbohydrates down into simple sugars. The microbes use these sugars as an energy source for the own growth and make end products, which are used by the cow…."end products being fatty acids (acetate) propionate and butyrate. "Rumen microbes ferment all carbohydrates….cell-wall material is digested slowly.
So how are you going to absorb all those nutrients in those plants when a human doesn't even have the hardware to digest it?
Do you worry about your O3 to O6 ratios? you should. (lsu777's point D)... LINK
quote:
Conclusions: The proportions of plasma long-chain n-3 fatty acids were not significantly affected by the duration of adherence to a vegetarian or vegan diet. This finding suggests that when animal foods are wholly excluded from the diet, the endogenous production of EPA and DHA results in low but stable plasma concentrations of these fatty acids.
B12?
quote:
TISSUE VITAMIN B12 deficiency can be due to inadequate intake (as seen in vegans), acquired malabsorption (as seen in pernicious anemia), or various inborn errors of cobalamin (Cbl) metabolism.
B12
quote:
Overall, these results confirm the notion that a vegan diet is deficient in vitamin B(12), which may have an unfavorable effect on CHD risk.
Osteoporosis?
quote:
The findings gathered consistently support the hypothesis that vegans do have lower bone mineral density than their non-vegan counterparts
Vitamin D3
quote:
The lack of food sources high in Vitamin D3 necessitates higher-than-normal UVB exposure to ensure that the body maintains adequate Vitamin D3 levels. Without this critical nutrient, even the most optimal calcium levels will be inadequate in maintaining bone mass.
Let's not even start on cholesterol.
I could list more, and go on and on and on, but you wont read them. Theology has taken over, and I can only open eyes.
As I mentioned towards the top of this post - you do not have the antimony of a cow, nor a gorilla, nor a bison, nor a horse. These animals gut microbes covert the fiber into short chain fatty acids which they use for the majority of their energy intake ...basically.
To which...
quote:You have no rumen to digest and absorb the Cellulose Fiber that the animals listed earlier do. No hardware to absorb all of the nutrients. So making that case based on biology qualifies me as a troll?
The point is, this isn't a meat vs veg debate... As I said before, anyone that went into a steak thread talking about vegetarianism and dropping links would be seen as a troll. So that's just how I am going to see you in here.
Theology much? Now, eggs and vegetarians, it is a start. Come on over to the dark side
I had to add one quote to whom I don't know to credit - "Beef is just concentrated grass."
This post was edited on 1/9/17 at 8:30 pm
Posted on 1/9/17 at 7:42 pm to mouton
quote:
What about micronutrients?
All essential nutrients, macro, micro or otherwise. As lsu777 has said, fatty meat provides it.
777, thanks for backing me up - I've been busy
Posted on 1/9/17 at 7:46 pm to thibtigerfan
quote:
Even cavemen ate more than just meat.
Where is the benefit in excluding veggies by doing an all meat diet?
Check this cool article out.
quote:
"Any animal, including man, that dines on herbivores will have collagen sporting a d15N that is about 7 percent greater than that found in the herbivores that are the meal, a fact confirmed by stable isotope analysis of known carnivores. A super carnivore (for lack of a better name) that dines on other carnivores and herbivores would have an even greater d15N level."
quote:
"Early man was a high-level carnivore. (As was his distant relative the Neanderthal, who lived contemporaneously with ancient man in Europe.) A higher-level carnivore, in fact, than foxes, wolves and other known carnivores. The earliest anatomically modern humans got most of their protein from animals of terrestrial origin."
quote:
"What the stable isotope studies don’t show, is how much carbohydrate these folks ate along with their meat. …. But since we do know that wolves and foxes are predators that consume mainly food of animal origin, and we know that early humans have an even more carnivorous stable isotope footprint, it seems unlikely that these humans would have consumed many calories from non-animal sources."
Posted on 1/9/17 at 7:51 pm to emboslice
quote:
You can get all the nutrients you require from meat. You don't require anything else, anyone who says otherwise is selling you something.
quote:
but that's not what junky said. If he would've said that, I probably would've taken him a bit more seriously.
I said you don't require anything else. Which, you don't. I always get bashed on this but I am talking about essentials, what I require, what food provides that.
quote:
And you can get all the protein you need while not eating meat
see above for retort
Posted on 1/9/17 at 8:02 pm to mouton
quote:
Hemp is a complete protein.
Just because it is complete, doesn't mean you can absorb it comepletly
...you can't - see above on what a rumen is.
This post was edited on 1/9/17 at 8:04 pm
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