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re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
Posted on 4/6/17 at 10:05 pm to BugAC
Posted on 4/6/17 at 10:05 pm to BugAC
I'm out of bottled beer that is ready to drink, I have a Belgian beer that's 4 months into bottle conditioning and a brown Ale that's still too fresh to drink.
My bottles are the blue cap ones.
My bottles are the blue cap ones.
0
Posted on 4/7/17 at 10:00 am to BugAC
quote:
Are you saying you beer started fermenting while you were kettle souring?
Yea I guess my questions are:
A) what are the odds that a kettle sour if contaminated with yeast would ferment quickly and cleanly at 90F? And
B) is there anything that could happen outside of ethanol fermentation to convert all those sugars, or can I assume that I just accidentally really efficiently made a sour beer?
Posted on 4/7/17 at 10:06 am to Canuck Tiger
quote:
A) what are the odds that a kettle sour if contaminated with yeast would ferment quickly and cleanly at 90F? And
Well it is possible, but there are also some lactic acid bacteria strains that are heterofermentative and will ferment the wort, although not at the level of actual yeast.
LINK
quote:
B) is there anything that could happen outside of ethanol fermentation to convert all those sugars, or can I assume that I just accidentally really efficiently made a sour beer?
Brett produces glycerol i believe. Or is it ethanol only? I read up on it a while back but don't remember exactly.
What was your OG?
This post was edited on 4/7/17 at 10:08 am
Posted on 4/7/17 at 10:10 am to Canuck Tiger
quote:
Canuck Tiger
Here's some more info
quote:
Lance Shaner's experiment on testing 100% Lactobacillus Fermentation showed that pure cultures of WLP677, WLP672, Wyeast 5335, Wyeast 5223-PC, and the L. plantarum from Omega Yeast OYL-605, could not fully attenuate a 1.037 SG wort. The most attenuative Lactobacillus culture, WLP677, was only able to attenuate down to 1.03255 SG. It is likely that all species and strains of Lactobacillus available to brewers cannot fully attenuate wort. In addition, this study showed at most a 0.29% ABV in 100% Lactobacillus fermentations (attributed to WLP677). See 100% Lactobacillus Fermentation for more information. If a higher attenuation is achieved, cross contamination of yeast is most likely the cause. Thomas Hübbe's masters thesis also supports that Lactobacillus attenuates less than 10% of the sugars in wort [48].
The amount of CO2 produced is very small in heterofermentative species. Lance Shaner of Omega Yeast Labs noted that although L. brevis is classified as obligatory heterofermentative, the human eye cannot detect any CO2 production in the Omega Yeast Lactobacillus blend (OYL-605). Lance still needs to test this blend to see if it produces any CO2 at all. There have been reliable reports of pure Lactobacillus brevis cultures producing a layer of bubbles on the surface of wort if roused [81]. It is clear though that any type of Lactobacillus, regardless of whether it is heterofermentative or homofermentative, cannot produce a krausen. Krausens are sometimes seen even with the use of commercially available Lactobacillus cultures and good sanitation techniques. If a krausen develops in wort when it is the only culture that is pitched, this is indicative of cross contamination of Saccharomyces or Brettanomyces in either the wort, or the Lactobacillus culture itself [82]. In addition to this, heterolactic fermentation by Lactobacillus can only produce 10-20% of the ethanol that Saccharomyces can produce [83], therefore a high level of attenuation cannot be achieved by Lactobacillus and is again a sign of cross contamination by yeast.
Recent studies on lactic acid fermented malt beverages shows that Lactobacillus produces only about 0.1% ABV, producing "non-alcoholic" fermented malt beverages [84][46]. Elde Arendt, a brewing scientist that specializes in Lactobacillus presented her work at the Belgian Brewing Conference 2015. In it she explained that LAB will only ferment 0.5°P of wort regardless of the gravity of that wort. When asked at the end of the presentation why Lactobacillus only ferments ~0.5°P (note that Shaner's experiment shows Lactobacillus fermenting ~1°P, although this may be due to a margin of error since Shaner only performed this experiment once), considering that Lactobacillus ferments maltose and there is plenty of maltose in wort, Arendt responded that she believes that the bacteria reaches max cell density in the wort with relatively little sugar requirements (~16 mins in and ~25 mins in):
So it appears that you may have had some wild yeast get into your kettle. Probably was in that Mason jar of 5335. Odds are, with that acidity, and that temp, it's Brett. How long did you kettle sour? How long did it take to go from SG to 1.015?
This post was edited on 4/7/17 at 10:13 am
Posted on 4/7/17 at 10:31 am to BugAC
OG was 1.062 on Saturday afternoon; SG corrected for temp last night was 1.015.
You know what though? I think that my 5335 culture probably has always had yeast in it. I previously kettle soured in corny kegs, and after a day or so transferred onto a yeast cake to finish after checking pH. I would build up more than enough pressure in the corny keg that I could just put a hose on the liquid line and transfer it like that. I always chalked it up to being hetero-fermentative, but I don't think I ever took a gravity sample, and I certainly never left it in the kettle after it was properly acidified. From that info, I shouldn't get enough CO2 to do a keg transfer with just lacto!
Oh well at least it wasn't gross or full of off flavours or anything. I dumped it onto a monster 3711/WL648 Brett trois vrai cake, so I guess I'll see what it tastes like at 1.002 in a day or so :) It may not get the raspberries I had planned for it though...
You know what though? I think that my 5335 culture probably has always had yeast in it. I previously kettle soured in corny kegs, and after a day or so transferred onto a yeast cake to finish after checking pH. I would build up more than enough pressure in the corny keg that I could just put a hose on the liquid line and transfer it like that. I always chalked it up to being hetero-fermentative, but I don't think I ever took a gravity sample, and I certainly never left it in the kettle after it was properly acidified. From that info, I shouldn't get enough CO2 to do a keg transfer with just lacto!
Oh well at least it wasn't gross or full of off flavours or anything. I dumped it onto a monster 3711/WL648 Brett trois vrai cake, so I guess I'll see what it tastes like at 1.002 in a day or so :) It may not get the raspberries I had planned for it though...
Posted on 4/7/17 at 2:26 pm to USEyourCURDS
quote:
USEyourCURDS
Nice job on the IPA Curds. Fruity, great mouthfeel. Nice aroma. A little bitter up front.
Did you have a blowoff when brewing this one?
Mine erupted and I lost a lot of Aroma IMO.
This post was edited on 4/7/17 at 2:27 pm
Posted on 4/7/17 at 2:41 pm to BugAC
Thanks Bug. Yes I put blowoffs on everything but I left more headspace this time because that 1318 overflowed my sanstar solution filled mason jar when i fermented my NE pale ale. I used some CTZ at the beginning of the boil that I had kept in a ziplock in the freezer for 2 months. Wondering if that had an extra bittering effect.
I am really interested in the critiques on the coffee stout as the post-bottling pull i took last night did not have the same mouthfeel as it did prior to bottling. Seemed thinner with less coffee. Funny thing is it finally began to carb which I was having trouble with prior to bottling.
I am really interested in the critiques on the coffee stout as the post-bottling pull i took last night did not have the same mouthfeel as it did prior to bottling. Seemed thinner with less coffee. Funny thing is it finally began to carb which I was having trouble with prior to bottling.
Posted on 4/7/17 at 2:49 pm to USEyourCURDS
quote:
I am really interested in the critiques on the coffee stout as the post-bottling pull i took last night did not have the same mouthfeel as it did prior to bottling. Seemed thinner with less coffee. Funny thing is it finally began to carb which I was having trouble with prior to bottling.
The other bottle is a coffee stout?
Posted on 4/7/17 at 2:50 pm to BugAC
Unless it is glowing in the bottle in which case it may have gotten mixed up at LA Homebrew.
This post was edited on 4/7/17 at 2:54 pm
Posted on 4/7/17 at 3:54 pm to USEyourCURDS
Still has a little berry pulp in the keg but that should go away after a few pours. Tastes like straight juice....
Sugar, water, purple
Posted on 4/7/17 at 5:34 pm to BugAC
Awesome. Would love to try it once you bottle.
Posted on 4/7/17 at 6:08 pm to USEyourCURDS
quote:
Awesome. Would love to try it once you bottle.
You'll get some. I have you on the list. It really is great. First pour earlier was off. The keg line clogged up from the pulp. Tastes bitter and sour. Thought I messed something up.
2nd pour was a full pour and still had some pulp but that bitterness completely went away. 3rd pour was pulp free. And damn if it ain't delicious. I'm only drinking a hoppy beer now because I'm currently first wort hopping my NEIPA and the smell got me craving some. Next beer will be another Purple Drank!
Posted on 4/7/17 at 9:35 pm to BugAC
Have you posted the recipe for that Purple drank? It looks and sounds delicious.
Posted on 4/8/17 at 9:15 am to I_heart_beer
quote:
Have you posted the recipe for that Purple drank? It looks and sounds delicious.
I haven't but I will Monday. Basically the milk the funk gose recipe, minus the coriander. Then puréed 3 lbs of blueberries and 2 lbs of blackberries and tried to strain out as much of the skin as I could. Then a week after initial fermentation I poured in the purée into the carboy and let it referment another week. I also dry hopped but I may skip that next time. Seems unnecessary with the berry flavor.
Posted on 4/9/17 at 10:54 pm to BugAC
In happier news, the saison I fermented with stepped up fantome dregs is done... and just perfect. It fermented on the cool side (62-64f ambient) and had a strongly oxygenated starter and 30 ibus in the wort to knock back bacteria. I get a bit of straw and hay from Brett but also hints of strawberry and fruit and bubblegum and it's like a slightly more yeast forward DuPont saison (just warm and flat).
I'm gonna throw a slightly more malty/dark grain bill on half of the cake next to get closer to the fantome beers it came from.
Posted on 4/10/17 at 7:59 am to I_heart_beer
Here's the recipe for Purple Drank. I pureed the blackberries and blueberries and added them on day 7 or 8 of ferm to the carboy. Ended up being about 4% ABV, and prior to adding the dry hops and blueberries, ph measured 2.98. I'll break out my ph meter and measure the next time i pour one.
4 lbs 12.0 oz Pilsen (BestMälz) (1.8 SRM) Grain 9 51.4 %
4 lbs 8.0 oz Wheat (BestMälz) (2.0 SRM) Grain 10 48.6 %
0.70 oz Sea Salt - Lime (Boil 10.0 mins) Spice 11 -
1.00 oz Hallertau Blanc [0.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpo Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
3.00 lb Blueberry (Boil 0.0 mins) Other 13 -
2.00 lb Blackberry (Boil 0.0 mins) Other 14 -
2.0 pkg Brettanomyces Bruxellensis Trois (White Yeast 15 -
1.0 pkg Lactobacillus Blend (Omega Yeast Labs #O Yeast 16 -
1.00 oz Hallertau Blanc [10.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
4 lbs 12.0 oz Pilsen (BestMälz) (1.8 SRM) Grain 9 51.4 %
4 lbs 8.0 oz Wheat (BestMälz) (2.0 SRM) Grain 10 48.6 %
0.70 oz Sea Salt - Lime (Boil 10.0 mins) Spice 11 -
1.00 oz Hallertau Blanc [0.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpo Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
3.00 lb Blueberry (Boil 0.0 mins) Other 13 -
2.00 lb Blackberry (Boil 0.0 mins) Other 14 -
2.0 pkg Brettanomyces Bruxellensis Trois (White Yeast 15 -
1.0 pkg Lactobacillus Blend (Omega Yeast Labs #O Yeast 16 -
1.00 oz Hallertau Blanc [10.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
Posted on 4/10/17 at 8:53 am to BugAC
This batch came out pretty good. I screwed up my water levels by fudging a number in BS so this came out a little lower in ABV and body than I wanted but will be corrected for the next brew day
Posted on 4/10/17 at 9:34 am to Canuck Tiger
quote:
In happier news, the saison I fermented with stepped up fantome dregs is done... and just perfect. It fermented on the cool side (62-64f ambient) and had a strongly oxygenated starter and 30 ibus in the wort to knock back bacteria. I get a bit of straw and hay from Brett but also hints of strawberry and fruit and bubblegum and it's like a slightly more yeast forward DuPont saison (just warm and flat).
Nice. My next brew will be a legit Sach/Brett Saison that i will let age full term (about 3-6 months).
I have 2 bootleg biology strains i want to use, though i'm sort of hesitant.
I have bootleg's Saison Parfait, which is a sach strain.
quote:
BBX0104 – Saison Parfait: New World Saison Blend
Availability: Limited
Source: A unique blend of previously unavailable commercially used Saison cultures.
Saison Parfait is our New World Saison Blend, a new take on the modern saison yeast flavor and aroma profile.
Saison Parfait pairs classic pepper & spice saison phenolics with prominent juicy fruit esters that evoke citrus and lemon peel, and a touch of banana for complexity. Even more unique, it finishes with a balanced, full-bodied and silky mouthfeel despite its high attenuation.
Saison Parfait means the “Perfect Season”, and is our ode to the fall harvest season. A time for hard work and also celebration. The peasants of rural Flanders and Wallonia created the Saison, and what we now call Farmhouse beers, to drink for sustenance and merriment. Bruegel likely depicted the drinking of Saison beer in his classic paintings of rural country life, “The Harvesters” and “Peasant Wedding”.
quote:
Type: Brewer’s Yeast. S. cerevisiae, variant
Pitching Rate: Directly pitchable into 5 gallons of 1.050 or lower wort
Estimated Attenuation: 90-100%
Estimated Final pH: 4.1-4.3
Flavor/Aroma Profile: Peppery spice, juicy citrus, hints of banana
Flocculation: Medium to High
Recommended Fermentation Temperature: Normal to High Ale Temperatures
My plan is to primary with Saison Parfait and then after about 5-7 days, pitch Funk Weapon #2 from Bootleg and let it ride for 3-6 months or until final gravity is reached.
Funk Weapon #2 info
quote:
BB0035C – Funk Weapon Series: #2
Availability: Limited
Source: Family-owned brewery producing Gueuze in West Flanders, Belgium.
This rare, and commercially unavailable yeast isolate is perfect for 100% Brettanomyces fermentations, especially Brett IPAs. Amplifies citrus and tropical fruit-forward hop flavors and aromas into a punchy ripeness. With extended time under CO2 pressure, pineapple and tropical fruit aromas will be more pronounced. Great for maintaining the nuance of hops in beer with better keeping qualities than a Brewer's Yeast fermentation.
Funk Weapon #2 is featured in Trinity's Magical Brettanomyces Tour #4, and experimentations by Highland Park Brewery, Yazoo Embrace The Funk, Mantra Artisan Ales and others.
[You can't make every style of beer with one or two strains of brewer's yeast, so why would you only use only one or two strains for your funky beers? This is the second release in the Dusty Bottoms Collection's ongoing Funk Weapon Series of unique, rare Brettanomyces and Brett-like wild yeast cultures.
quote:
Type: Yeast. Brettanomyces bruxellensis variant
Pitching Rate: Directly pitchable into 5 gallons of 1.050 or lower wort
Estimated Attenuation: 80%-95%
Estimated Final pH: 3.9-4.4
Flavor/Aroma Profile: Strong Ripe Fruit, Tropical
Flocculation: Low to Medium
Recommended Fermentation Temperature: Normal Ale Temperatures
Posted on 4/10/17 at 9:36 am to sandraccoon
quote:
his batch came out pretty good. I screwed up my water levels by fudging a number in BS so this came out a little lower in ABV and body than I wanted but will be corrected for the next brew day
Looks great.
I brewed another NEIPA similar to my last one minus a few changes. 1) La Homebrew no longer carries spelt so i just upped my oats amount. 2) used competely different hops. Galaxy, Simcoe, and Equinox (or Ekuanot). Again, 1318 took off like a beast, but thankfully, i prepped ahead of time and hooked up an appropriate blowoff tube. When i get home from work today, i will add the biotranformation hops. As of now, it smells very fruity and tropical in the fermenter. Excited about this one.
And, i'll start washing some bottles and bottling up Purple Drank for you guys in the next couple days and drop it off at the brew shop.
Posted on 4/10/17 at 9:40 am to BugAC
quote:
Looks great.
I brewed another NEIPA similar to my last one minus a few changes. 1) La Homebrew no longer carries spelt so i just upped my oats amount. 2) used competely different hops. Galaxy, Simcoe, and Equinox (or Ekuanot). Again, 1318 took off like a beast, but thankfully, i prepped ahead of time and hooked up an appropriate blowoff tube. When i get home from work today, i will add the biotranformation hops. As of now, it smells very fruity and tropical in the fermenter. Excited about this one.
And, i'll start washing some bottles and bottling up Purple Drank for you guys in the next couple days and drop it off at the brew shop.
Yeah 1318 is awesome! I used Mosaic/Citra/Amarillo on this one.
34.4% 2-row
34.4% MO
25% Flaked Oats
6.3% Flaked Wheat
I am getting some flip top bottles in Wednesday or Thursday and I will bottle up one and bring it by LAH over the weekend hopefully.
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