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BugAC
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re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
If you're a fan of history and brewing, check out this book.



Got it a couple days ago, and i really like it so far. I'm sure it will delve more into kveik, and i want to read up more on this style of brewing before i try my hand at it. Goes into detail on true, early farmhouse brewing. I'm loving it so far and only a few pages in.

I'm always hesitant because i don't know what to brew with kveik yeast. I see people make NEIPA's, Lagers, and saisons with the same yeast. I've only had one beer made with kveik, and it was NOLA's Kveik ride IPA. It tasted more like a saison to me, which would make sense considering it's geographic origins.


BottomlandBrew
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re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
quote:

I'm always hesitant because i don't know what to brew with kveik yeast.


Realize that the world of kveik is just as diverse as the world of regular brewers yeast. There are tons of kveik strains that do all sorts of different things.


BugAC
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re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
quote:

Realize that the world of kveik is just as diverse as the world of regular brewers yeast. There are tons of kveik strains that do all sorts of different things.


Someone in one of the Kveik facebook groups gave me this link to all the different strains.

Farmhouse Yeast Registry

I believe Garshol put it together. It's a bit overwhelming. I'll probably transfer this to a spreadsheet and write out styles that could go well with the descriptors and see how they pan out.

Update: My Maine Brewing Peeper Pale Ale clone was kegged yesterday. Did a gravity measurement, FG is 1.009 @ 38, right on target. Tasted and smelled it. This smells and tastes fantastic. I get LOADS of tropical fruit in this thing. It was generously hopped with Citra, Medusa, and Sabro. I have it force carb'd right now @ 30 psi, and will drop it to about 14-15 psi before i put it in the kegerator. I'm hoping to put it on tap for my sons bday party tomorrow, we'll see. But, if this turns out like i think it will, this may be my new go to Pale Ale.
This post was edited on 9/18 at 10:40 am


BottomlandBrew
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re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
Help! Sabro hop experience requested.

Due to a mix-up from my homebrew store, instead of brewing a SNPA clone tonight, I'm instead brewing a west coast IPA. I'm scrambling around because I was not prepared for the increase in hops I would need for an IPA vs an APA. I have some Cascade and Falconer Flight, but I need an ounce or two more of lassic APA/IPA hops. I have some sabro, but I've never used them before. Are they like super coconutty, or just a little coconutty? Would they pair well with Cascade and FF?



BugAC
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re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
quote:

I have some sabro, but I've never used them before. Are they like super coconutty, or just a little coconutty? Would they pair well with Cascade and FF?


I've never used FF before. Not sure how they would do with Cascade, as cascade is more floral. Sabro lends a nice soft tropical fruit/stone fruit flavor. I've only ever paired it with a neomexicanus variety or citra/galaxy/bru-1 type of hops.

If i was designing a recipe, i wouldn't purposefully put cascade, FF, and Sabro together. But if it's all you have, try it out.
This post was edited on 9/18 at 2:20 pm


puffulufogous
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re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
So my oktoberfast is really really solid and I'm keeping it at 40F. My kegerator also serves as my fermentation fridge and I'm looking at trying to brew this weekend. Was thinking I might brew my first lager and have it ferment at the serving temp of my oktoberfast. Any recommendations on a first lager style thats pretty easy and will fit the bill? Recipes? Tips on lagering in general?


BigPerm30
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re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
I’m not sure if there is any yeast that will ferment at 40 degrees? You typically start it in the upper 60s and gradually lower it. I’m not sure it would work.


BugAC
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re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
quote:

My kegerator also serves as my fermentation fridge and I'm looking at trying to brew this weekend. Was thinking I might brew my first lager and have it ferment at the serving temp of my oktoberfast. Any recommendations on a first lager style thats pretty easy and will fit the bill? Recipes? Tips on lagering in general?




I'm not an expert on lagers but as big perm said, the fermentation temp will be a problem. You could use a kveik strain though. From what i'm reading, there are a few strains that make lager-like beers. Again, i'm very new to kveik and just started reading about it, so i can't give you any definitive answers. The one thing about kveik, though, is you can ferment at just about any temperature. So if you wanted to ferment in the garage, or a closet, it is possible without any off flavors.


BigPerm30
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re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
I used Kveik for a Mexican lager once. I threw the whole batch out. I learned Kveik needed to be hot. It would not ferment at 70 degrees. I had to put a heater on it for it to take off. It was definitely not “clean” but I may have fricked something up. That’s my experience with Kveik.


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puffulufogous
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re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
Was going to raise it the the mid 50s but if it's not doable the weather has been pretty decent in central KY. Could do an ale without the fermentation fridge


BugAC
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re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
quote:

Was going to raise it the the mid 50s but if it's not doable the weather has been pretty decent in central KY. Could do an ale without the fermentation fridge


What's your temps without fermentation? You could do a saison if it's a little warm out (upper 70s).


puffulufogous
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re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
72 and sunny right now. Probably a couple degrees cooler in the garage and mid forties at the coldest at night. Looks like low seventies as the highs for next week. Maybe I can just do an easy pale ale. I've got columbus, cascade, citra, sabro laying around and a nice culture of omega 004.
This post was edited on 9/21 at 3:04 pm


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BottomlandBrew
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re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
quote:

Any recommendations on a first lager style thats pretty easy


80% Pilsner
20% Munich
(you can maybe throw in a few ounces of melanoidin, if you want)
2 oz saaz at 60
1 oz saaz at 20
1 oz saaz at 5
Whirlfloc at 15
Ferment with 34/70 at 52 for 3-4 days. Pull it out of your fridge and let it go ambient for a week to clean up. Keg it an add gelatin, then set it back in your kegerator at the 40 degrees for a couple weeks. Pour off a pint or two when it comes time to serve and you're good to go.
Boom. Simple lager.


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puffulufogous
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re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
bug how did your pale ale clone end up? I decided to brew a pale ale this weekend and use my kegerator/ fermentation chamber for it and let the oktoberfast come back to RT. I have heard that some people do this and just fill growlers and stick them in the fridge for a while. I think its more important to have a stable fermentation temp then have cold beer at my fingertips. Been tracking the temps in the garage and they've been 76 during the day and mid 60s at night. My chico yeast tops out at 73 on the high side so I would rather not risk ester formation especially because ambient temps are going to be a little higher this weekend.

I've adapted brulosophy's hop chronicles pale ale recipes (base malt with 5% vienna) with a ton of cascade. 1.75oz for 60 min, 1oz with 5 min left, 1oz at flameout, and a 2 oz dry hop. Sound good? Are yall dry hopping with a few days left in the fermenter, at high krausen, after krausen drops like biotrans, or what. I've been reading brulosophy experiments where they've hopped at yeast pitch vs 3 day and day 3 of fermentation vs day 9. Their experiments seemed to yield that late dry hopping produced danker beer, but I'm not sure thats what I need in a west coast PA.


BugAC
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re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
quote:

bug how did your pale ale clone end up?


It's not bad. It's a little thinner than i expected. It finished around 1.009 FG. I used American Ale yeast. I think next time, i'll do one of 3 things. Different yeast, higher mash temperature, or do a biotrans hop addition. I've been letting it fully carbonate, as i drank it 2 days after force carbing, so i need to give it another taste to get a more accurate idea of how it tastes. I always find that IPA's need at least a week or 2 before they hit their stride.

quote:

I decided to brew a pale ale this weekend and use my kegerator/ fermentation chamber for it and let the oktoberfast come back to RT. I have heard that some people do this and just fill growlers and stick them in the fridge for a while.


Just a warning from my last lager. Which turned out good. But, taste the oktoberfest before you package/keg. Taste it a couple times. If you notice any diacetyl (butter) you have a few options to cure it prior to kegging. My pilsner i made was HEAVY with diacetyl, however, when i was tasting prior to kegging, i didn't really notice it. Once it was kegged, it was a butter bomb. So i read up on how i could fix it. Many people said time, or bring it back up to room temp. The problem was, it was already carbonated. One method someone mentioned was krausening. You, essentially, add a lager starter to the fermenter, and the additional yeast cleans up the diacetyl (you may want to google krausening for the best way to do this). So what i ended up doing, was removing the keg from teh kegerator and bleeding out carbonation from it for over the next couple weeks. Then i krausened the keg, and let it do its thing for another 2-3 weeks. It ended up working pretty well. However, it's best to krausen prior to kegging. From what the people from other homebrew boards were saying, they've never heard of krausening after it was carbonated.

Krausening

quote:

I've adapted brulosophy's hop chronicles pale ale recipes (base malt with 5% vienna) with a ton of cascade. 1.75oz for 60 min, 1oz with 5 min left, 1oz at flameout, and a 2 oz dry hop. Sound good?


I'm assuming the base malt is 2 row? The recipe i used was 85% 2 row, and like i said, tasted a little thin, but that is likely due to a lower FG, not the malt bill. Try it and see how you like it.

quote:

Are yall dry hopping with a few days left in the fermenter, at high krausen, after krausen drops like biotrans, or what. I've been reading brulosophy experiments where they've hopped at yeast pitch vs 3 day and day 3 of fermentation vs day 9. Their experiments seemed to yield that late dry hopping produced danker beer, but I'm not sure thats what I need in a west coast PA.


So NEIPA's have been a bit of a problem for me. I've brewed more variations of this style than just about any other style of beer, and i've only been perfectly happy with my beer 1 or 2 times. I keep tweaking and adjusting and often i adjust the wrong thing and the beer doesn't turn out the way i expect it. That being said, i've done a lot of reading and research on the style, especially on dry hop additions and amounts. I typically add hops at 2 or 3 different stages. I add a 10 minute addition (sometimes). I do a whirlpool at 170-180 for 20 minutes. I then do a biotrans hop addition and sometimes a final dry hop, or a keg hop addition. After listening to the brulosophy guys on their podcast, i'm going away from teh final late dry hop addition. The reason being, is you open yourself up more to oxygen ingress when you open the fermenter to add those hops. Instead, i've been either adding all of my late hops in the biotrans addition, or doing a biotrans, and a keg hop addition, and adding the hops to a keg, then purging the keg with CO2 before closed transfer to the keg. Now granted, my last 2 NEIPA's have been a disappointment. I used oat malt rather than oats, due to reading about the metal content in flaked oats, and the increased O2 pickup from metals (element not metal fragments). This turned my last 2 NEIPAs into being very malty, as the oat malt accounted for 20% of the grist. So my plan of attack for my next NEIPA is this:

Small early hop addition
Small 10 minute addition
Whirlpool addition of about 3 oz.
Biotrans addition of 3-4 oz.
Keg hop addition of about 2 oz.
Flaked oats, not oat malt
London Ale 3 yeast or similar
Closed transfer to kegs
And most importantly, use reverse Osmosis Water

This last pale ale was done with RO, and i think this helped in nailing every single brew number and actually increasing my efficiency a little. Not to mention, the beer tastes a bit cleaner than some of my previous ipas. Anyway, here is a picture of my pale ale from a couple days ago.

This post was edited on 9/24 at 7:49 am


BugAC
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re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
SOUR BEER UPDATE (for those that are interested):

I bottled my biere de garde about a month ago (another L'internationale project recipe), and have now had 2 or 3 bottles of it so far. I love this beer. The darker malt bill lends itself to some caramel sweetness. This beer was blended 60/40 sour/brett beer. The sour beer was the same recipe brewed a year ago, with some lactic acid bacteria added. Then blended with the newer BDG recipe. However this batch was only a Sach/Brett fermented beer, no LABs. The acidity is not overpowering at all, and seems to envelope your whole tongue. It's fantastic!




And i blended my sours a couple days ago and dry hopped them. I now have 10 gallons of sour beer to bottle. Technically, i could bottle 18 gallons, as i have 2 additional sours in the sour beer closet that are ready, but i will let them go longer. I haven't decided if i will bottle the 2 sours this Sunday or wait another week. My bottling brett vials came in the mail yesterday, i'm using 2 vials of the Yeast Bay Amalgamation II.

quote:

Amalgamation II is a blend of 5 Brettanomyces bruxellensis isolates that showcases qualities of each isolate: The balanced funk of the Beersel isolates and TYB184, the SweeTarts™ character of TYB207, and the tropical bouquet of lemon, pineapple, guava, mango and papaya esters contributed by TYB261.


The 2 beers being bottled are:

L'internationale Saison: LINK This is now my 3rd batch. I love this beer. The hops differ slightly with each batch, but i am for very citrusy/lemony hops when making this. I typically make 5 gallons of a saison, then blend it with 1 gallon of a mixed ferm sour i have aging. It's a perfect example of a summer saison. This beer is now on regular rotation. And, the good part, is that it's a mixed fermentation beer, that doesn't take a year before it is ready. I go from grain to glass anywhere from 4-6 months with this beer as long as i have a stock of mixed ferm sour available.

The other beer being packaged got it's inspiration from 2 different beers. Jester King Noble King, and NOLA Sauvage. I used the JK Noble King recipe, LINK, but wanted it to have some malt character and be a bit darker, similar to NOLA's sauvage. Sauvage is an all brett beer, with no lactic acid bacteria, however the acidity, comes from the brett. Brett tends to produce lactic acid when exposed to oxygen. So i took the Noble King recipe, and added in some Caramunich malt. Followed the same hop schedule, primaried with WY3724 Belgian Saison strain, and then added a variety of brett vials i had in my fridge that were either about to get old, or i couldn't figure out a use for them. I used 3 vials of brett from the Yeast bay, TYB207, TYB184, and Lochristi Brett (if you notice the amalgamation II blend has all of these blends in it. Could have saved myself some money by just using that, lol), and 1 pack of Bootleg Biology Funk Weapon #3. This beer sat for about 3 months and the FG is at 1.004. This is EXACTLY what i was trying to get out of this beer. Good complexity of brett and some slight acidity. I debated on whether to blend this beer, or just package as is. So i compromised and blended 5 gallons of this beer, with 1/2 gallon of a sour, just in case my pallate was being fooled.

The other 2 beers that are ready for bottling, but will wait are:

The remainder of the Biere de Garde batches. So the first batch was a 60/40 sour BDG to brett BDG blend. Well this one is a 60/40 Brett BDG to sour BDG, added on top of 12-15 lbs of sour cherries that have been aging for over a month now. It's got a real pretty burgundy color.

The other, is 3 gallons of the remnants of the 2 beers being bottled this weekend or next. The sour beer used to blend with the other 2 batches was in a 3 gallon fermenter. To get the correct blend proportions, i removed beer from each of the 2 batches and set it aside, then blended in the sour beer into those fermenters. That left me with 1/2 gallon of the sour beer. So i took the 2.5 gallons from the 2 batches, and racked on top of the sour beer dregs. All 3 of these beers had low final gravities, so i don't expect much, if any refermentation to happen. I'll let it sit for a few weeks. I will more than likely add fruit to this, once i determine the flavor profile after it rests a bit. May use blackberries at a rate of 2 - 3 lbs/gallon and just see what happens.

SOUR BEER BREW SCHEDULE:

All of that being said, i'm down to not much beer left in the sour beer pipeline. I have 6 gallons of a solera batch, that to be honest, could also be bottled, but i'm going to hold off for now. And then with the biere de garde, the saison, and now the Noble King brett beer clone all being excellent beers, these may now be regular beers with relatively short turnaround i could continuously brew. And seeing as i do need acidity for these beers, i'll probably just pull from the solera as my acid base for these blends. But, in the meantime, here are the beers i will be brewing.

Golden Ale Sour Base - I have the dregs to my first ever sour saison. I will use this as my sour beer base. I just need to brew a 5 gallon batch and add the 1 gallon dregs and let it do it's thing. 1 year until ready for blending.
Amber Ale Sour Base - Similar to above, except will be used for darker beers, maybe. I'm still researching if this is necessary, or if i could use the golden sour base for darker beers. I don't see why i couldn't, i've done it before.
L'internationale Saison
L'internationale Biere de Garde
Bring on da Funk (Noble King/Sauvage Clone)
Lambic/Gueuze - I also plan to brew a lambic. Debating on doing the turbid mash thing or not. I don't think i have enough pots to do a turbid mash, but we'll see. I've also read that turbid mash is not necessary given the quality of malts nowadays. I will brew this in the winter when it gets colder, and will make a few attempts at a wild capture. My brother and I want to brew this at my mawmaw's old house. The house is getting demolished, but she lived on the bayou bank of my hometown. There is a big sycamore tree and a nice flat area near the bank, that would be a good spot to brew this beer. I may brew the lambic batch at home, and brew a 5 gallon batch at mawmaw's house, and split the 5 gallons into jars and place around the property in hopes of picking up something wild. Was thinking of at least 5 different spots to place it: Near the bayou, on top of the indian mound (she lived next to an indian mound), next to where her old garden used to be, near the banana magnolia tree, and 1 other. I want to brew this beer around the same time every year, and after 3 or 4 years, blend these beers and make a gueuze.
This post was edited on 9/24 at 8:52 am


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puffulufogous
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re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
quote:

Just a warning from my last lager. Which turned out good. But, taste the oktoberfest before you package/keg. Taste it a couple times. If you notice any diacetyl (butter) you have a few options to cure it prior to kegging

Oh it's already been cold crashed, kegged, and about halfway empty now. No off flavors that I could appreciate. I was going to take out of the kegerator so I could raise the temp of the fridge to ferment the pale ale at the correct and stable temperature. I know that letting the already carbed and chilled keg come to room temperature will let co2 out of solution which may require an increase in psi to keep carbonation up. Just figured it's better to have to adjust the pressure and chill growlers when needed rather than potentially ruin 5g of a new beer.

quote:

assuming the base malt is 2 row? The recipe i used was 85% 2 row, and like i said, tasted a little thin, but that is likely due to a lower FG, not the malt bill. Try it and see how you like it.


I figured it's basically like doing a SMaSH beer. It can't hurt to have a good command of a classic hop like cascade.

Regarding hop additions I may hold that dry hop addition as a keg hop. I'm now fermenting in a keg and doing o2 free transfers. I figure I can push the sanitizer out of the serving keg, add the keg hops, purge, and then transfer the beer over. This might reduce the chance of oxidizing. I have one of those metal tea straining balls that might help avoid hops clogging up the dip tube. So I'm now thinking boil hop, 1oz 10 min addition, larger flameout, 2oz bio trans in fermenting keg, and 2 oz keg hop. I want to avoid grassy/vegetal flavors and hop burn. Also I've read that 5g reaches saturation with about 4 oz dry hop.


BugAC
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re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
quote:

I have one of those metal tea straining balls that might help avoid hops clogging up the dip tube.


I bought a few of those and used them once. They didn't hold much hops at all. Remember, the pellets will expand when they get wet. The expansion broke a few of the teaballs. I ended up trashing them and bought some of these filters. Works fantastic, both for keg hopping (on the dip tube), and racking from the fermenter for a hop heavy beer, or a fruited beer.

LINK







A tip though, if using with a sterile siphon starter (pictured below), you'll need to trim the filter down. I cut a few inches from the top with some scissors so the filter will fit all the way into the fermenter. Also, remove the red plug cap at the bottom of the siphon starter, if not you'll likely have some stuck transfers.



puffulufogous
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Member since Feb 2008
6196 posts

re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
Excellent link. I may get one of their corny keg dry hopping chambers. Maybe two of the 11.5 inch would be good. I could use it for keg hopping or bio trans. I could use one in the fermentation keg for bio trans and one in the serving keg for keg hops.


BugAC
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re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II


Bottling day. Bottling up the 2 sours I mentioned earlier. Hope I cleaned enough bottles for 10 gallons of beer.

ETA: ended up getting exactly 60 bottles, about 1/2 bombers and 1/2 500 and 375 mL. Both beers bottles with the Yeast Bay amalgamation II.
This post was edited on 9/27 at 3:31 pm


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