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Message
re: Homebrewing: In-Process Thread
Posted on 11/18/13 at 8:26 am to LoneStarTiger
Posted on 11/18/13 at 8:26 am to LoneStarTiger
quote:
how long is "too long" for a beer in a primary
I am of the opinion that unless you forget about your beer for months, you are in fine shape.
1
Posted on 11/18/13 at 8:35 am to Fratastic423
quote:
Whether that is beer Smith telling you you need more then you do or austin measuring it incorrectl
It would have to be with beersmith, maybe. I don't know. My mash efficiency has always been a bit high (lower 80's) but the last 3 it's been very high. I fly sparge and slowly (about 30 minutes) drain my wort into my brewpot. My mash tun keeps heat in very well. Over a 70 minute mash, i lost only 1 degree in temperature. And if i'm not getting high efficiency, then how do i explain my high OG? Again, the only thing i can think of, is that the 5.2 stabilizer is throwing me off from my expected targets.
Now again, i'm talking mash efficiency only. After a 90 minute boil (first time) i ended up with 4.5 gallons of wort. Initially i had 7.2 gallons. I ended up adding 1 gallon of water to the primary. My brewhouse efficiency was 68%. On a typical 60 minute mash, volume measurements are much more on target.
FWIW, here is my grain bill.
11 lbs. 4 oz Maris Otter
1 lb 7 oz. Caramel Malt 60L
14 oz. Caraamber
9 oz. Rye
And my fermenter is churning away. Incredible smell of hops coming from the fermenter. It is my hoppiest beer to date.
This post was edited on 11/18/13 at 9:35 am
Posted on 11/18/13 at 8:43 am to LoneStarTiger
quote:
how long is "too long" for a beer in a primary?
I'll let you know when I find out. My whole assembly line is backed up at the moment, so things are just sitting in primary until I can get around to them. Been a few months for several of them.
Posted on 11/18/13 at 9:05 am to BottomlandBrew
Mash eff is one of the things I really don't like how BeerSmith handles.
I calculate your mash eff around 77.6%, but my math is often shite. Anyone please feel free to let me know where I f'd this up.
Grain ... Potential SG ... Weight ... Total PSG
----------------------------------------
Maris Otter ... 1.036 ... 11.25 ... 427.50
Caramel ... 1.035 ... 1.43 ... 50.31
CaraAmber ... 1.035 ... 0.875 ... 30.63
Rye ... 1.029 ... 0.56 ... 16.31
100% eff would get you 521.75 gravity points.
4.5G * 1.090 = 405 gravity points
405 / 521.75 = 77.6%
I calculate your mash eff around 77.6%, but my math is often shite. Anyone please feel free to let me know where I f'd this up.
Grain ... Potential SG ... Weight ... Total PSG
----------------------------------------
Maris Otter ... 1.036 ... 11.25 ... 427.50
Caramel ... 1.035 ... 1.43 ... 50.31
CaraAmber ... 1.035 ... 0.875 ... 30.63
Rye ... 1.029 ... 0.56 ... 16.31
100% eff would get you 521.75 gravity points.
4.5G * 1.090 = 405 gravity points
405 / 521.75 = 77.6%
This post was edited on 11/18/13 at 9:06 am
Posted on 11/18/13 at 9:09 am to LSUGrad00
quote:
4.5G * 1.090 = 405 gravity points
You're calculating brewhouse efficiency.
4.5 was my post-boil wort. I started out with 7.2 gallons of pre-boil wort.
Posted on 11/18/13 at 9:11 am to BugAC
quote:
You're calculating brewhouse efficiency.
I will never be able to comprehend what the difference between mash efficiency and brewhouse efficiency is in these conversations. 68% sounds much more realistic of efficiency number.
My calculations at 75% get you an OG of 1079 with that recipe.
Posted on 11/18/13 at 9:19 am to Fratastic423
quote:
I will never be able to comprehend what the difference between mash efficiency and brewhouse efficiency is in these conversations. 68% sounds much more realistic of efficiency number.
mash efficiency is calculated pre-boil. I did a couple calculations a while back, before i realized beersmith could calc it for me. You basically do the same measurements (i think) but compare it pre-boil. Your pre-boil gravity should be (lower or higher? can't remember) than your post-boil.
Brewhouse takes into account your mash efficiency plus your post boil volume and gravity. So if i have 7 gallons of 80% mash efficiency, but then post boil i have 4.5 gallons rather than my planned for 5.5 gallons, then my efficiency drops, because it is comparing it to what your planned targets were.
Posted on 11/18/13 at 9:20 am to Fratastic423
quote:
My calculations at 75% get you an OG of 1079 with that recipe.
That's where i'm standing at right now, after adding 1 gallon of water. 1.078 is my OG.
However, according to beersmith, my OG was supposed to be 1.068. Something is off, i just don't know what.
This post was edited on 11/18/13 at 9:24 am
Posted on 11/18/13 at 9:21 am to Fratastic423
quote:
I will never be able to comprehend what the difference between mash efficiency and brewhouse efficiency is in these conversations.
me either... I've never calculated 'brewhouse efficiency'. When the boil ends, regardless of volume, I aim for my wort to be at my OG.
I accept that my brewhouse eff would be crap bc I leave a gallon in the kettle, plate chiller, and hoses.
quote:
My calculations at 75% get you an OG of 1079 with that recipe.
1.079 was after he added an additional 1 Gallon of water to top off.
Posted on 11/18/13 at 9:22 am to BugAC
quote:
ccording to beersmith, my OG was supposed to be 1.068. Something is off, i just don't know what.
5.5 Gallons at 70% gets you that 1068 number.
Posted on 11/18/13 at 9:25 am to LSUGrad00
quote:
. I've never calculated 'brewhouse efficiency'. When the boil ends,
You are calculating brewhouse efficiency.
Mash efficiency is calculated pre-boil. I'd have to look at my recipe again to get my pre-boil, post mash readings.
Posted on 11/18/13 at 9:26 am to BugAC
Brewhouse Eff = (Volume in Fermenter * OG) / total potential gravity points
Mash Eff = (Volume in Boil Kettle * OG) / total potential gravity points
Mash Eff is not affected by pre/post boil unless you are adding sugars to the boil.
Brewhouse Eff is effected by wort loses between the boil kettle and fermenter (ie wort left in kettle, tubing, chiller).
Mash Eff = (Volume in Boil Kettle * OG) / total potential gravity points
Mash Eff is not affected by pre/post boil unless you are adding sugars to the boil.
Brewhouse Eff is effected by wort loses between the boil kettle and fermenter (ie wort left in kettle, tubing, chiller).
Posted on 11/18/13 at 9:28 am to BugAC
Here's a definition, better than what i can give.
LINK
LINK
quote:
Brewhouse efficiency is defined as the percent of potential grain sugars that are converted into sugar in the wort. Typically this includes losses for a given brewing setup, and these losses are taken in aggregate rather than accumulated individually. It is therefore a measure of the overall efficiency of your brewing system.
quote:
The actual brewhouse efficiency is measured for an entire system. Unlike the dry grain yield or potential measured in a lab, real brewers achieve only a percentage of the ideal number due to real considerations such as efficiency of the mashing process, and losses due to boiling, deadspace or trub. This percentage of the potential, as measured across the whole system into the fermenter, is the brewhouse efficiency.
quote:
A related term is mash efficiency. Unlike brewhouse efficiency, mash efficiency measures only the efficiency of the mash and sparging steps. Mash efficiency can be through of as the percent of potential fermentables extracted during the mashing process that actually make it into the boiler.
Posted on 11/18/13 at 9:31 am to BugAC
I shoot mostly to get my mash efficiency on target first. If you hit this, then your resulting brew will have the closest target to what you were aiming for. Now, if your brewhouse efficiency is off, then you are losing target quantities, and your hops utilization could be screwed up.
I was not focusing on brewhouse efficiency my first few all grain brews, but have since made adjustments, which is why i aim for 5.5 gallon brews.
I was not focusing on brewhouse efficiency my first few all grain brews, but have since made adjustments, which is why i aim for 5.5 gallon brews.
Posted on 11/18/13 at 9:42 am to BugAC
What was the gravity reading at 7.2 gallons pre-boil?
Posted on 11/18/13 at 10:03 am to Fratastic423
quote:
What was the gravity reading at 7.2 gallons pre-boil?
I'd have to go check. I'll let you know after lunch. I'm doing some caculations, and it appears that my potential points for my grains are 72.8.
Grain Potential Points Grain Pts Weight (LBS)
Maris Otter 56.7 36 11.33
Caramel Malt 7.5 34 1.583
Caraamber 5.7 35 1.167
Rye 3 29 0.75
72.9 134 14.83
72.9 Potential Pts, 134 Grain pts, 14.83 lbs of grain.
Posted on 11/18/13 at 10:10 am to Fratastic423
quote:
What was the gravity reading at 7.2 gallons pre-boil?
I'm thinking it was around 1.068
Posted on 11/18/13 at 10:42 am to Fratastic423
Because we have no FBD
Posted on 11/18/13 at 11:27 am to BugAC
quote:
I'm thinking it was around 1.068
I'm comign up with 1.089 @ 5.5 gallons and 1.109 @ 4.5 gallons for your gravity after boil.
Source for numbers
Posted on 11/18/13 at 11:31 am to BottomlandBrew
quote:
I'm comign up with 1.089 @ 5.5 gallons and 1.109 @ 4.5 gallons for your gravity after boil.
I think he was saying that he ended up with 5.5 G @ 1.089 after boil, but was only able to transfer 4.5 G of that 1.089 wort over to his fermenter due to hops and break material at the bottom of the kettle.
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