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re: Gumbo vs Stew vs Soup...What's the difference?

Posted on 2/12/12 at 9:32 am to
Posted by JasonL79
Houston area
Member since Jan 2010
6425 posts
Posted on 2/12/12 at 9:32 am to
quote:

quote:


It is not a matter of not knowing, it a matter of not being able to convince you of what gumbo is over the interweb.





To me gumbo is a soup made with a dark roux and okra (or file) as thickeners. Pretty much anything else can be put in there.

If you have a roux without the okra(file) its a stew or another dish.

Others think gumbo doesn't need okra (file) and I wonder where they learned that and why they think that?


There are many variations of gumbo that don't include okra but are still called gumbo. I don't buy into that. There are many ways to cook a gumbo.

To me when cooking a gumbo, I don't consider okra to be the main ingredient even if I do use it. The stock and roux is way more important to the taste of gumbo than the okra is. And I do use okra with my seafood gumbo but not with my chicken and sausage gumbo.

I grew up in southeast Louisiana eating a lot of stews and usually the stew was thicker and included more rice than a gumbo. It was more of a rice dish with some thicker stew on top.
Posted by Napoleon
Kenna
Member since Dec 2007
74207 posts
Posted on 2/12/12 at 9:49 am to
Sure its been said, but soup is made from an un thickened broth, if it is thickened it is done with pureeing of ingrideints.

A Stew is similar to a soup but a thickening agent (usually a roux or can even be a sluree of water and cornstarch or flour) is used to thicken and add hearty-ness to the soup.

A gumbo is a type of African stew, that uses a roux in addition to either the leaves of the sassafrass tree (file') or Okra to add additional thickness to it. Also the roux for a gumbo must be the slow cook darker color roux, while a stew can have a blonde roux.

Posted by Mike da Tigah
Bravo Romeo Lima Alpha
Member since Feb 2005
61827 posts
Posted on 2/12/12 at 11:06 am to
quote:

A Stew is similar to a soup but a thickening agent (usually a roux or can even be a sluree of water and cornstarch or flour) is used to thicken and add hearty-ness to the soup.
quote:

A gumbo is a type of African stew, that uses a roux in addition to either the leaves of the sassafrass tree (file') or Okra to add additional thickness to it. Also the roux for a gumbo must be the slow cook darker color roux, while a stew can have a blonde roux.


So, when I cook a cream base soup like a clam chowder or perhaps a corn chowder for example, and begin with a blonde roux it's actually a stew?

I think the difference is found more in what actually you're doing when you stew something.

Stew meat for example is tough, right? You have to slow cook it to break it down and make tender, so you're stewing the meat down. Stewing chicken down for chicken stew is the same process, but it's always about the meat. Braising is most often done in it's own juices with little else but fat. I'd say that braising and stewing meat are more similar than stews and soups are, and I think it gets down to what you're doing in breaking the meat down so it falls apart, and significantly less liquid than a soup.

In a gumbo, that's not necessarily the case. I don't stew my chicken or andouille down. I render it down in fat prior to adding it to my stock/roux that has been cooked to the point where I get the flour taste out of it. I'm not looking for a stringy mess here. Similarly, and even more obvious is when it comes to seafood gumbo. If you stew your shrimp and crab down you're going to end up with a disgusting mess of rubber stringy overcooked shrimp and crab meat that looks like confetti throughout. Instead, we add the shrimp and perhaps loose lump crab meat and pre-cooked claws and claw meat within it at the end so we don't destroy it, so we aren't stewing anything, but rather adding it to the dish after everything has come together nicely, and serve. Similarly, a crawfish or shrimp bisque is done the same way as a seafood gumbo is done, and you don't stew the crawfish or shrimp down. It's more about the flavor of the liquid itself and less about tenderizing tough cuts of meat.

In the same manner we add the meat at the end we do so in other widely accepted soups like Shrimp and Corn soup.

Irish Stew on the other hand is not considered a soup because if you look at the process, it's about stewing the lamb shoulder until it becomes tender. Yes, stock is used to accomplish this dish, but again, it's more about the process of breaking down the meat than it is anything else.

My mother for example likes to add stew meat to her vegetable soup, but in the end it's still a vegetable soup with meat in it rather than a beef stew. When she makes a beef stew, she adds significantly less stock and stews the meat down and adds root vegetables at the end, and pours over rice. The term "Soupy" is not what she's going for when pouring the beef stew over the rice. However, with her vegetable soup that is exactly what she's going for, thus the term soup not stew.

So, I see nothing that indicates anyone stews meat down here as it pertains to a gumbo. Meat is certainly a part of both chicken and seafood gumbo, and slow cooking might be a part of many people's recipes, yet I still see nothing to indicate people stew meat down to make a stew rather than add meat to a soup.

This post was edited on 2/12/12 at 11:24 am
Posted by LSUPHILLY72
Member since Aug 2010
5377 posts
Posted on 2/12/12 at 11:49 am to
From John Folse's "Encyclopedia of Creole and Cajun Cuisine":

quote:

In West Africa, okra was a popular vegetable prized for its thickening ability. “Gumbo,” the African word for okra,became the name of Louisiana’s most famous soup, which is generally made with okra, seafood and/or poultry. Some believe that a French adaptation of their traditional bouillabaisse when combined with okra and thickened with roux became Louisiana gumbo.


quote:

In addition, the Choctaw Indians taught the Cajuns and Creoles how to grind sassafras leaves into gumbo filé used to flavor and thicken the soup. Among the many gumbo “experts” in South Louisiana, you will find some who swear that the dish must have both okra and filé, others that swear by one or the other and still others who use neither.


Posted by y0brando
gonzales
Member since Sep 2011
232 posts
Posted on 2/12/12 at 11:24 pm to
quote:

The question is...what makes shrimp and crab soup different from shrimp and crab "GUMBO"?


roux. no roux, no gumbo.
Posted by gmrkr5
NC
Member since Jul 2009
15142 posts
Posted on 2/13/12 at 6:33 am to
I made crawfish stew yesterday. The main difference to me between something like that and a gumbo is going to be your ratio of roux to stock and the basic method used to cook it. You do some things just a little different when making a stew vs a gumbo. I dont think it has anything to do with the main ingredients really.
Posted by TigerSpy
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2006
9984 posts
Posted on 2/13/12 at 7:10 am to
quote:

you will find some who swear that the dish must have both okra and filé,


I disagree with this. It's either a file' gumbo or not.
Posted by BayouBlitz
Member since Aug 2007
18126 posts
Posted on 2/13/12 at 9:06 am to
Gumbo is a soup for sure. As is bisque. Gumbo is just a specific style, made with a roux, stock and trinity; and intended to be served over rice.

I always use okra in mine, but I don't absolutely insist that okra must be included for it to be considered gumbo.

Though I don't have an exact definition, stews to me are heartier and chunkier with the use of larger portioned vegetables (potatoes, carrots, etc).
Posted by AreJay
Member since Aug 2005
4186 posts
Posted on 2/13/12 at 9:46 am to
count me in for a vote on gumbo being a soup.
Posted by TIGERFANZZ
THE Death Valley
Member since Nov 2007
4060 posts
Posted on 2/13/12 at 10:31 am to
Stew-made with roux but it is VERY thick & usually has potatoes & carrots (turnips, etc) in it whereas a gumbo does not.

Gumbo-made with a roux but not as thick as a stew

Soup-no roux

So basically the difference between a stew & gumbo is the amount of water added to it, along with a few subtle differences in ingredients.
Posted by Mike da Tigah
Bravo Romeo Lima Alpha
Member since Feb 2005
61827 posts
Posted on 2/13/12 at 1:48 pm to
quote:

Soup-no roux



Again, for the record, soups made with a roux:

Pretty much every cream soup you've had, which includes clam chowder, corn chowder, potato soup, oysters and artichoke, etc, etc, etc, all start with a roux.

Shrimp Bisque
Crawfish Bisque
Tomato Bisque
Seafood Gumbo
Chicken and Sausage Gumbo

Browning flour suspended in oil, butter, or fat drippings in nothing new to making many soups and sauces. It's simply a thickening agent. Heck, every time you have a proper mac and cheese you're biting into a roux that made the bechamel/cheddar sauce. Veloutes are also made with a roux. Basically, anything that begins with making your basic white mother sauce is going to begin with a roux.

BTW, I just looked in a John Folse book of mine and he refers to chicken and sausage as well as seafood gumbo as a soup.

Not to harp on this, but I thought some might find this of value. I thought the question by the OP was of value and worthy of serious discussion because of how I think we often put gumbo in a different category to anything else, when I guess in the end it really is soup du jour.






This post was edited on 2/13/12 at 1:59 pm
Posted by Count Chocula
Tier 5 and proud
Member since Feb 2009
63908 posts
Posted on 2/13/12 at 2:11 pm to
Since I have no culinary style (according to Stadium Rat), I am uniquely qualified to render an opinion here. Your question can be answered in a South La manner as follows:

Soup = No Roux (as in chicken noodle, tomato soup or soup de jour).

Gumbo = RTT (Roux To Taste and all other 72k items people want to put in it).

Stew = RDTR (Really Damn Thick Roux and all the other 72k items people want to put in it).
This post was edited on 2/13/12 at 2:44 pm
Posted by LSUAfro
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2005
12775 posts
Posted on 2/13/12 at 2:15 pm to
Choc what's your dislike with the closing ) ?
Posted by Count Chocula
Tier 5 and proud
Member since Feb 2009
63908 posts
Posted on 2/13/12 at 2:42 pm to
quote:

Choc what's your dislike with the closing )
Closing of what??? Albertsons by ULL???
This post was edited on 2/13/12 at 2:43 pm
Posted by Count Chocula
Tier 5 and proud
Member since Feb 2009
63908 posts
Posted on 2/13/12 at 2:44 pm to
quote:

Choc what's your dislike with the closing ) ?


a-hole.... Edited
Posted by LSUAfro
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2005
12775 posts
Posted on 2/13/12 at 2:45 pm to
quote:

Closing of what??? Albertsons by ULL???
Them there pararantheses symbols you added at the end of each sentence you got up there.
Posted by LSUAfro
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2005
12775 posts
Posted on 2/13/12 at 2:46 pm to
quote:

a-hole.... Edited
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