He is not a star. If he went to the Warriors he would be their 4th best player. That team would still struggle to be a top 4 seed and they wouldn't have a chance in the Finals against the Nets or Bucks (no team from the West does).

I know he was younger and had health issues. But the year before Ingram came here, he played next to James on a loaded Lakers squad. Rondo was the PG. That team didn't make the playoffs. You are applying the same basics that didn't work before. Except you expect it to be more effective with Zion rather than LeBron James.

It is a bitter pill. But some guys just aren't winners and can't lead. I went through this for years with Davis. Tons of talent, can put up huge numbers. But is not a winner. Put him with an Alpha that can close, he'll help. But counting on him to be a star, that just isn't who he is.

Also, we had Holiday playing next to those guys. It didn't work. Holiday left, plays PG now and just won a ring. They had that guy here and left him go for a load of crap..

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Posted by shel311

McKinney, Texas

Member since Aug 2004

110701 posts

Posted on 9/12/21 at 2:07 pm to brmark70816

quote:
They had that guy here and left him go for a load of crap..

What better offer do you think we could have gotten for Holiday?

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Posted by LouisianaJoseph

Denver

Member since Apr 2018

1390 posts

Posted on 9/12/21 at 3:09 pm to shel311

Hindsight is 20/20 when you're stupid as frick

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Posted by htran90

Member since Dec 2012

30088 posts

Posted on 9/12/21 at 3:29 pm to brmark70816

quote:
He is not a star. If he went to the Warriors he would be their 4th best player. That team would still struggle to be a top 4 seed and they wouldn't have a chance in the Finals against the Nets or Bucks (no team from the West does).

Right at this moment? he'd be the 2nd best behind curry.
Everyone wants to project Klay as elite still, yet he's been out for 2 years --- that is a COMPLETE unknown.
Draymond defensively is still very good, but offensively he's taken HUGE steps back.

That team has the same issues as it would last year, their depth is completely shot. they don't have a primary defender either. recipe for disaster.

quote:
I know he was younger and had health issues. But the year before Ingram came here, he played next to James on a loaded Lakers squad. Rondo was the PG. That team didn't make the playoffs. You are applying the same basics that didn't work before. Except you expect it to be more effective with Zion rather than LeBron James.

you're delusional if you're saying that team was 'loaded'. lebron and ingram both played only 50 or so games that year and the rest were a bunch of C tier role players.

I'm implying that a top 8 of Graham, NAW, Ingram, Zion, JV, Hart, Hayes, and Satoransky can be the same as a top 8 of LeBron, Ingram, Kuzma, KCP, Hart, McGee, Rondo, and Ball.

quote:
Also, we had Holiday playing next to those guys. It didn't work. Holiday left, plays PG now and just won a ring. They had that guy here and left him go for a load of crap..

Yet Holiday was the 3rd best player on his team and despite being the "point guard" handled the ball the 3rd most on said championship team

Holiday played a role on that championship team, but if it wasn't for Middleton dropping 40-point games like no tomorrow, they don't make it to the finals much less win it all.

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Posted by brmark70816

Atlanta, GA

Member since Feb 2011

9758 posts

Posted on 9/12/21 at 7:07 pm to htran90

quote:
Right at this moment? he'd be the 2nd best behind curry.

Yeah, I just don't agree with this at all. 4th. Maybe 3rd, if Thompson or Green hit a decline.

I just think you are way undervaluing defense way too much.

quote:
you're delusional if you're saying that team was 'loaded'. lebron and ingram both played only 50 or so games that year and the rest were a bunch of C tier role players.

You can't say a team is bad, cause people got injured. They were struggling before Ingram or James got hurt.

The Lakers swapped Ingram, Hart and Ball for Davis, Bradley and Green.. then won the Championship. The went from out of the playoffs to the Championship by changing those 3 guys. We stayed the same.

quote:
I'm implying that a top 8 of Graham, NAW, Ingram, Zion, JV, Hart, Hayes, and Satoransky can be the same as a top 8 of LeBron, Ingram, Kuzma, KCP, Hart, McGee, Rondo, and Ball.

Is that a good thing? That team didn't make the playoffs.

quote:
Yet Holiday was the 3rd best player on his team and despite being the "point guard" handled the ball the 3rd most on said championship team

Holiday was the catalyst that put them over the top. My whole point was that we had him. It didn't work with what we had. It's hard to blame Holiday, when he leaves and wins a Championship. Giannis took a big leap. But that team couldn't get past the ECF before Holiday showed up.

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Posted by Hester Carries

Member since Sep 2012

22396 posts

Posted on 9/13/21 at 1:31 am to brmark70816

quote:
Yeah, I just don't agree with this at all. 4th. Maybe 3rd, if Thompson or Green hit a decline.

You think….in 2021….Draymond Green is better than Brandon Ingram???

God help you

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Posted by brmark70816

Atlanta, GA

Member since Feb 2011

9758 posts

Posted on 9/13/21 at 7:19 am to Hester Carries

quote:

You think….in 2021….Draymond Green is better than Brandon Ingram??

I think he is more valuable to the Warriors.

The Green sucks shtick is so overplayed now. The guy was 1st team defense and was 4th in assists last season on a struggling team. He is pretty damn crucial to that team..

This post was edited on 9/13/21 at 11:30 am

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