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The Legal Framework & Boundaries for Government Coercing Private Business
Posted on 9/7/21 at 8:09 pm
Posted on 9/7/21 at 8:09 pm
As the title asks, what is the legal framework in relation to government coercing private business and where are the boundaries, if any?
I’ve been mulling this topic in response to Federal, state and local rules and regulations that require, for example, the shuttering of “non-essential” business, imposing fines on businesses that do not enforce mask mandates, and, most recently, the possibility of the State requiring businesses to impose vaccination requirements as a condition of employment.
And, honestly, I haven’t been able to get very far. The topic is far too complicated to get sorted out in one poli-board thread, but input from anyone with insight or a link(s) to some written authority would be greatly appreciated. I’d like to advance my thinking.
Most private businesses exist as a function of state law. Others, such as your local Federal credit union, are the creation of Federal law. In general, a business is authorized to engage in lawful commerce and to sue/be sued. Businesses also have the right to contribute to political campaigns. Depending on the business a whole host of obligations also exist, such as paying income withholding, worker’s compensation, etc.
There is also a broad spectrum of business types, from the sole proprietor operating with a business license to multinational publically traded companies.
At the Federal level the outermost boundary seems to be Wickard, which permits the regulation of intrastate commerce when related to a broader Federal regulatory scheme. At the state level, though, I’m not aware of any restriction on government to define and regulate private business however the legislature/city council sees fit.
Is there a liberty right to engage in your own livelihood? And, if so, where is that written?
About the only arguable inroad I’ve come up with is that a sole proprietor would be more advantaged to resist government coercion because they are legally operating as an individual, and therefore could defend upon a basis of individual rights vis-à-vis government action, as opposed to a business entity which seemingly exists at the pleasure of the State.
I know that one remedy is the ballot box, but I’m concerned that the socialists have figured out that instead of having government implement authoritarian policies directly on the citizen they can simply use the levers of government power to enact/enforce policy on the citizen via private business.
I’ve been mulling this topic in response to Federal, state and local rules and regulations that require, for example, the shuttering of “non-essential” business, imposing fines on businesses that do not enforce mask mandates, and, most recently, the possibility of the State requiring businesses to impose vaccination requirements as a condition of employment.
And, honestly, I haven’t been able to get very far. The topic is far too complicated to get sorted out in one poli-board thread, but input from anyone with insight or a link(s) to some written authority would be greatly appreciated. I’d like to advance my thinking.
Most private businesses exist as a function of state law. Others, such as your local Federal credit union, are the creation of Federal law. In general, a business is authorized to engage in lawful commerce and to sue/be sued. Businesses also have the right to contribute to political campaigns. Depending on the business a whole host of obligations also exist, such as paying income withholding, worker’s compensation, etc.
There is also a broad spectrum of business types, from the sole proprietor operating with a business license to multinational publically traded companies.
At the Federal level the outermost boundary seems to be Wickard, which permits the regulation of intrastate commerce when related to a broader Federal regulatory scheme. At the state level, though, I’m not aware of any restriction on government to define and regulate private business however the legislature/city council sees fit.
Is there a liberty right to engage in your own livelihood? And, if so, where is that written?
About the only arguable inroad I’ve come up with is that a sole proprietor would be more advantaged to resist government coercion because they are legally operating as an individual, and therefore could defend upon a basis of individual rights vis-à-vis government action, as opposed to a business entity which seemingly exists at the pleasure of the State.
I know that one remedy is the ballot box, but I’m concerned that the socialists have figured out that instead of having government implement authoritarian policies directly on the citizen they can simply use the levers of government power to enact/enforce policy on the citizen via private business.
Posted on 9/7/21 at 8:13 pm to RantardoMontalbon
Simply put, the government power derives from the court or legislature giving permission and then a determination later that they were wrong and an “oops” moment.
Take the following
Dred scott
Plessy
Japanese internment
Earlier scotus on church shut down in Cali then saying it was wrong
Many more examples.
Take the following
Dred scott
Plessy
Japanese internment
Earlier scotus on church shut down in Cali then saying it was wrong
Many more examples.
Posted on 9/9/21 at 4:56 pm to RantardoMontalbon
Seems like the right time for a shameless bump in an effort to get a few more nibbles.
Posted on 9/9/21 at 5:10 pm to RantardoMontalbon
This is a flawed premise. We should focus first on protecting our rights from the businesses and then government will have no ability to coerce them
Posted on 9/9/21 at 5:14 pm to RantardoMontalbon
This should have gone through Congress, yet, I do not trust Congress either.
Posted on 9/9/21 at 5:26 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
This is a flawed premise. We should focus first on protecting our rights from the businesses and then government will have no ability to coerce them
Except the citizen doesn't have rights against private business as a non-state actor.
That's the genius of what they're doing. Instead of mandating directly against the citizen, government is coercing private business to achieve a similar result.
Which begs the central question in the OP: How do business fight back in light of their possessing less legal status and protections as the individual?
This post was edited on 9/9/21 at 5:31 pm
Posted on 9/9/21 at 6:53 pm to RantardoMontalbon
It sounds like you think a lot like I do but be warned, most people don't. Most people don't backtrack to the fundamental level for much of anything, certainly not government and legal. So I wouldn't expect any responses to this thread.
I often ask myself the same question. How best to eke out a living in pre-industrial Revolution cottage industry Style with minimal government interference. The problem is that all other rights are reserved specifically for the state or the people. Problem is, that encompasses everything and it's not spelled out specifically at the federal level. That gives the individual states way too much latitude as far as I'm concerned. But it was designed that way. These are 50 sovereign States United so the answers you seek are in your state constitution and statutes.
You're free to do anything unless there's not a specific law against it so the trick is finding the loopholes but I know that anything you do that's out of the ordinary, even if completely legal, will create problems when dealing with any government agencies. This is why people strip naked and run off into the woods and Homestead. The Amish have had it right all along. Be a country within a country. You have to be completely self-sufficient and off the grid, so to speak. That's the only way to avoid the shitshow.
I'll give you one hint, though. Perform services or provide produced products at the individual level, only accept cash payments or barter and always refer to them as donations and never payments for services or Goods.
I often ask myself the same question. How best to eke out a living in pre-industrial Revolution cottage industry Style with minimal government interference. The problem is that all other rights are reserved specifically for the state or the people. Problem is, that encompasses everything and it's not spelled out specifically at the federal level. That gives the individual states way too much latitude as far as I'm concerned. But it was designed that way. These are 50 sovereign States United so the answers you seek are in your state constitution and statutes.
You're free to do anything unless there's not a specific law against it so the trick is finding the loopholes but I know that anything you do that's out of the ordinary, even if completely legal, will create problems when dealing with any government agencies. This is why people strip naked and run off into the woods and Homestead. The Amish have had it right all along. Be a country within a country. You have to be completely self-sufficient and off the grid, so to speak. That's the only way to avoid the shitshow.
I'll give you one hint, though. Perform services or provide produced products at the individual level, only accept cash payments or barter and always refer to them as donations and never payments for services or Goods.
Posted on 9/9/21 at 7:13 pm to RantardoMontalbon
quote:When teh government forces businesses into action-- they are a state actor. This is a seizure of power the Unite States has never seen before.
Except the citizen doesn't have rights against private business as a non-state actor.
Posted on 9/9/21 at 7:33 pm to RantardoMontalbon
quote:
Except the citizen doesn't have rights against private business as a non-state actor.
Maybe rights isn't the exact legal term here but the individual has all kinds of protections against businesses in the form of labor laws. It seems like this is s nobrainer that both sides want which is reduced say in an employee's healthcare. From hobby lobby to the vaccine.
quote:
How do business fight back in light of their possessing less legal status and protections as the individual?
Businesses are treated as people under current rules based on citizens united ruling that was a massive overreach. Or at least that's my understanding to the logic of them having free speech and unlimited campaign contributions powers.
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