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Started By
Message
re: Zach Lowe on Brandon Ingram(and some other recent national coverage)
Posted on 1/23/21 at 2:26 pm to shel311
Posted on 1/23/21 at 2:26 pm to shel311
quote:
You spent 2 days calling me a moron for suggesting Zion has shown a lack of effort stating that was absolutely not
And we went over this silliness, making the wrong reads and overreacting or becoming paralyzed mentally isn’t evidence of a lack of effort or laziness, it’s overwhelmingly evidence of unpolished defensive read and react skills.
If we saw him pulling a Harden from a few years back and just not closing out, never reacting period, and just generally sitting around and doing nothing except attempting to get back on offense, this nonsense may have some merit.
But your argument continues to betray all evidence we have of Zion’s work ethic, what his teammates and coaches have said, past and present, and what we actually see on the court from him. Which is a guy that seems to be lost mentally at times or slow to read and react at times, or is reacting too much or overreacting, but is generally trying on both sides of the ball.
This post was edited on 1/23/21 at 2:27 pm
1
Posted on 1/23/21 at 2:29 pm to Bronc
quote:This you?
But your argument continues to betray all evidence we have of Zion’s work ethic
quote:
There’s some effort issues as well,
Now you're apparently betraying all evidence because all along THIS has been my argument. The one you called me a moron for and are now saying exactly what I said in the other thread.
This post was edited on 1/23/21 at 2:32 pm
Posted on 1/23/21 at 2:29 pm to shel311
quote:
I do think Ja has closed the gap considerably on Zion from what my thoughts on the 2 were at the time of the draft, but I'd still take Zion over Ja without hesitation at this point.
Unless either one suffers a catastrophic injury, I think what we called them before the draft is fitting right into place.
ja's potential is a westbrook/rose slasher who could be lethal if he developed a consistent jumpshot/3pt shot. He's proven thus far that's the trend he's going into right now.
zion's potential was a generational superstar like lebron who will put up a bunch of stats/points, efficiently, but the limitation for him will become where he lands in his passing/shooting. Which we're seeing right now is just that.
In a world where lakers land the #2 pick and we somehow got both to go with Ingram? Would have been amazing.
Posted on 1/23/21 at 2:32 pm to shel311
Effort issues insomuch as we have seen from everyone not named Adams.
But for some reason you seem to be singling out Zion and running from thread to thread framing things like Zion is showing Harden levels of defense when it’s nothing of the sort. Defending posters saying we need to drastically scale down Zion’s ceiling after 35 games and a bunch of lazy arguments, yours included.
But for some reason you seem to be singling out Zion and running from thread to thread framing things like Zion is showing Harden levels of defense when it’s nothing of the sort. Defending posters saying we need to drastically scale down Zion’s ceiling after 35 games and a bunch of lazy arguments, yours included.
Posted on 1/23/21 at 2:33 pm to Bronc
quote:So effort issues from Zion, the thing you called me an idiot for saying. Now you're saying. Got it.
Effort issues insomuch as we have seen from everyone not named Adams
Glad to see you've come around and are saying exactly what u was saying in the other thread 3 days ago.
Posted on 1/23/21 at 2:38 pm to shel311
You are really scrounging up for some semblance of a moral victory aren’t you Shel?
Here’s the full sentence:
Nothing Zion is doing is outside of the general problems the team is having with staying focused, but you are running around thread to thread catastrophizing Zion as uniquely showing a outsized lack of effort, defending every dum dum coming along wanting to lower his fricking ceiling after 35 games.
Your initial thesis was Zion’s problems on defense are overwhelmingly from a lack of effort, calling him an uncaring turnstile and completely uninterested, when the tape and supplementary evidence we have shows a much different and more complex picture that you refuse to acknowledge.
Here’s the full sentence:
quote:
There’s some effort issues as well, and that goes for the whole team unless your name is Adams, but Zion’s biggest problem right now to me is mental.
Nothing Zion is doing is outside of the general problems the team is having with staying focused, but you are running around thread to thread catastrophizing Zion as uniquely showing a outsized lack of effort, defending every dum dum coming along wanting to lower his fricking ceiling after 35 games.
Your initial thesis was Zion’s problems on defense are overwhelmingly from a lack of effort, calling him an uncaring turnstile and completely uninterested, when the tape and supplementary evidence we have shows a much different and more complex picture that you refuse to acknowledge.
This post was edited on 1/23/21 at 2:41 pm
Posted on 1/23/21 at 2:40 pm to Bronc
quote:So.... like I've said all along, and you called me a moron for saying.
There’s some effort issues as well
This isn't that hard, you should realize your error.
Posted on 1/23/21 at 2:46 pm to shel311
quote:
So.... like I've said all along, and you called me a moron for saying.
I will repeat since you are clearly trying to crawfish out of this and save face:
Your initial thesis was Zion’s problems on defense are overwhelmingly from a lack of effort, going so far as to all caps people and calling him an uncaring turnstile and completely uninterested, you double downed and called him lazy not just on defense, but in all facets of the game in response to my post. I challenged you that it is flat out untrue and much more of a mental problem defensively. That the tape and supplementary evidence we have shows a much different and more complex picture that you refuse to acknowledge.
If you are now wanting to acknowledge that which you refused all week, that’s good and we can move on, and you can stop gaslighting our conversations
This post was edited on 1/23/21 at 2:51 pm
Posted on 1/23/21 at 3:14 pm to Bronc
I said he lacked effort on D.
You said I was a moron for saying he lacked effort on D.
You said he lacked effort on D.
Those are undeniable facts. Those 3 things happened exactly as I stated.
You said I was a moron for saying he lacked effort on D.
You said he lacked effort on D.
Those are undeniable facts. Those 3 things happened exactly as I stated.
This post was edited on 1/23/21 at 3:22 pm
Posted on 1/23/21 at 8:17 pm to shel311
quote:
I said he lacked effort on D.
Quit trying to rewrite history. You wanted to push this simple narrative that Zion was straight up or giving a shite on defense(and later on, inferring it to be a problem on either side of the ball).
quote:
NO, he hasn't. He's a turnstile on the perimeter. He guards no one.
quote:
The same effort/energy/motor/ That is 100% fair and logical to assume he'd bring with him. We are seeing the opposite of that. Energy, nope he's giving us a lack of effort.
quote:
Why are you arguing that we should expect him to come in as a lazy player when he was a high energy dude at Duke?
I responded with some reason and Zion responded with multiple 30 point games to put a cherry on the top of your absurdity:
quote:
He’s in a new system that requires a ton of responsibility on his part and his mental to physical responses aren’t as sharp at times. JJ, SVG, Adams, and all the vets have mentioned this issue with Ingram, Zion, Hayes, and most young players in general. You don’t just come in and “play defense.” You need to be able to read and process options and procedures lightning quick and then make the right reactions. I remember AD’s first two seasons and the sort of dumb shite threads people started on various forums claiming he didn’t put in effort on defense when in reality it was just wasn’t mentally ready yet.
If anything one of Zions flaws has been over committing, where he will too aggressively close out on a defender or over help and allow the other team to exploit him. SVG has mentioned this before.
It’s also not clear whether his burst is physical, or again, mental. SVG mentioned only in the last two games have they opened up the offense to let Zion do more than pretty much just low post actions. And only yesterday did he publicly say he has to do more to give Zion the right pieces around him by changing up the lineups because it isn’t fair for him.
Maybe let’s see what he looks like when he gets comfortable and the offense is actually opened up for him
Then your dumbass responded with an all caps WTF to my attempt at explaining the complexity of the situation. Dismissing it outright.
If you want to accept that things are more complex than Zion just doesn’t give a shite, then we good. But anymore of this gaslighting and I’m just gonna keep calling you out for this absurdity.
Posted on 1/23/21 at 8:26 pm to Bronc
quote:I'm repeating exactly what I said. You seem to have issues with accepting facts.
Quit trying to rewrite history.
Nothing I've said is outlandish, it's essentially the prevailing thought by most on here and in the media. Because it's what is happening.
quote:You act like a 13 year old girl who doesn't get her way, it's a bit embarrassing.
Then your dumbass
quote:as I've consistently said all along, it's a lack of effort. You continue to call me a dumbass, moron, and idiot while also saying Zion has shown a lack of effort. It's pretty darn weird
If you want to accept that things are more complex than Zion just doesn’t give a shite, then we good. But anymore of this gaslighting and I’m just gonna keep calling you out for this absurdity
You're showing you don't have the emotional maturity to have an adult conversation without breaking down, it's just a really bad look for you.
This post was edited on 1/23/21 at 8:27 pm
Posted on 1/23/21 at 8:32 pm to shel311
quote:
as I've consistently said all along, it's a lack of effort. You continue to call me a dumbass, moron, and idiot while also saying Zion has shown a lack of effort. It's pretty darn weird
You're showing you don't have the emotional maturity to have an adult conversation without breaking down, it's just a really bad look for you.
Lack of effort doesn’t disrupt passing lanes, doesn’t shoot back as the only player in transition, lack of effort isn’t the issue when you are over closing out on defenders. Lack of effort isn’t running the court and then sprinting to close out. Lack of effort isn’t getting offensive boards in 3 and 4 defenders, working harder to score points than anyone on offense.
You continue to look like a moron and now are just trying to play the “u melting” card when it’s nothing of the sort.
You got hyper emotional, you said some dumb shite and clearly have an an inability to accept being wrong so you are attempting to gaslight.
It’s silly, but a bit amusing since I have a feeling this is gonna be something I can play with you on for years because you are seemingly incapable of just saying, “yeah, maybe you have a point, maybe it’s just not a cut and dry effort issue” and instead will take this nonsense that Zion doesn’t give a shite to the grave. That’s the hill you want to die on and it’s incredibly amusing lol
This post was edited on 1/23/21 at 8:34 pm
Posted on 1/23/21 at 8:39 pm to Bronc
quote:Then why did YOU say Zion has showed a lack of effort?
Lack of effort doesn’t disrupt passing lanes, doesn’t shoot back as the only player in transition, lack of effort isn’t the issue when you are over closing out on defenders. Lack of effort isn’t running the court and then sprinting to close out. Lack of effort isn’t getting offensive boards in 3 and 4 defenders, working harder to score points than anyone on offense.
quote:
You continue to look like a moron and now are just trying to play the “u melting” card when it’s nothing of the sort.
You don't even have enough emotional maturity to talk like an adult, what are you talking about...
quote:Says the guy doing the name calling in his last 2 or 3 posts.
You got hyper emotiona
Lack of self awareness
quote:Funny cause I said he lacks effort and you said the literal same thing today, agreeing with the thing you now say is wrong.
inability to accept being wrong
quote:You're lost right now, out to sea.
this is gonna be something I can play with you
Posted on 1/23/21 at 8:45 pm to shel311
quote:
Then why did YOU say Zion has showed a lack of effort?
It’s amusing how you continue to cling to this one half sentence you deliberately took out of context like you found your gotcha where I supposedly agreed with that nonsense you were spewing about Zion supposedly not giving a shite on the court, defense and offense. But the fact you had to cherry pick says all that needs to be said.
No matter how many emoji’s you post, claims of melting, or other such nonsense, it’s just forcing us to go back to your dumbass words over and over again. And I’m not sure how that is beneficial to someone that seems desperate to gaslight history because they made a bunch of foolish and low IQ comments claiming Zion doesn’t give a shite as a Pel?
Posted on 1/23/21 at 8:57 pm to Bronc
All Bronc Quotes below:
Bronc today talking about Zion TODAY
- There’s some effort issues as well
Bronc in the other thread calling me a moron for stating Zion has shown a lack of effort:
- it’s become pretty clear those assumptions about “no longer having it” and “lack of effort/athleticism” look largely misplaced.
- By all accounts the effort and desire is there
- lacking in what you had defined(I would argue incorrectly) as effort
- And it’s only slightly less absurd to definitively accuse Zion for lack of effort
Yea, tell me more how you're going to be able to "play with me for years" about this.
If you're not embarrassed by these quotes, then you don't any rational understanding of how hypocritical you've been.
You can either admit your clear and obvious hypocrisy and move on. Or continue to deny facts and come out looking really poor. Your call.
Bronc today talking about Zion TODAY
- There’s some effort issues as well
Bronc in the other thread calling me a moron for stating Zion has shown a lack of effort:
- it’s become pretty clear those assumptions about “no longer having it” and “lack of effort/athleticism” look largely misplaced.
- By all accounts the effort and desire is there
- lacking in what you had defined(I would argue incorrectly) as effort
- And it’s only slightly less absurd to definitively accuse Zion for lack of effort
Yea, tell me more how you're going to be able to "play with me for years" about this.
If you're not embarrassed by these quotes, then you don't any rational understanding of how hypocritical you've been.
You can either admit your clear and obvious hypocrisy and move on. Or continue to deny facts and come out looking really poor. Your call.
Posted on 1/23/21 at 9:53 pm to Bronc
quote:
Alongside Steven Adam’s (who’s made one 3 his entire career
Lolol I wonder who that was against. I wonder if it was one handed. I wonder if it was from 3/4 court.
Fck us.
Posted on 1/23/21 at 11:44 pm to eyeran
quote:
They all but said they'd take RJ Barrett over Zion at this point. Just fyi, Barrett's averaging 17.8 ppg, shooting 40.8% from the field and 23.5% from 3.
Vernon has a Grizz press pass, of course he’s going to say shite that sounds like the Grizz never wanted Zion.
Posted on 1/24/21 at 10:33 am to shel311
Shel you are trying to make this gaslight a thing and it’s not.
You unemphatically came into these conversations hyperventilating and catastrophizing about how Zion isn’t showing any effort on defense or offense. Just doesn’t give a shite.
I said it was more complex than that and you proceeded to go full unhinged in defense of every lazy Zion criticism you could get your hands on. Then as more and more games came about that make you just look stupid, you want to rewrite history by taking something that doesn’t even mean what you want it to and try and use it as if I’m somehow agreeing with your nonsense. Which remains just that, nonsense.
Shel, it’s pathetic, no one is buying it unless they are equally a bozo and no one gives a frick. You overstepped in your criticism. Take the L and move on.
You unemphatically came into these conversations hyperventilating and catastrophizing about how Zion isn’t showing any effort on defense or offense. Just doesn’t give a shite.
I said it was more complex than that and you proceeded to go full unhinged in defense of every lazy Zion criticism you could get your hands on. Then as more and more games came about that make you just look stupid, you want to rewrite history by taking something that doesn’t even mean what you want it to and try and use it as if I’m somehow agreeing with your nonsense. Which remains just that, nonsense.
Shel, it’s pathetic, no one is buying it unless they are equally a bozo and no one gives a frick. You overstepped in your criticism. Take the L and move on.
Posted on 1/24/21 at 11:04 am to Bronc
Bronc
L
O
L
quote:Also Bronc
- it’s become pretty clear those assumptions about “no longer having it” and “lack of effort/athleticism” look largely misplaced.
- By all accounts the effort and desire is there
- lacking in what you had defined(I would argue incorrectly) as effort
- And it’s only slightly less absurd to definitively accuse Zion for lack of effort
quote:
There’s some effort issues as well
L
O
L
Posted on 1/25/21 at 9:27 am to eyeran
quote:
He literally HAS to be double teamed to have any shot at stopping him and we have nobody who can knock down a kick out three. Its disgusting.
Let's not act like Zion has been great at making a conscious effort to kick out for 3s that often. The last 2 games he's done better with the potential assists, but some games, where he is less dominant, he has been forcing up shots into these double and triple teams when he's had people wide open. However, I expect that part of his game to drastically improve in the future
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