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BCS v. Playoff

Posted on 7/19/08 at 10:52 am
Posted by tigerinridgeland
Mississippi
Member since Aug 2006
7700 posts
Posted on 7/19/08 at 10:52 am
It probably won't change any minds, but there are some interesting, if not entirely new, points of view in this discussion on CFN by a panel of sportswriters.

LINK

My view is that those who want a full blown playoff system should be careful what they wish for. But in any event, I doubt 1A football will ever use a playoff system. A 1+ system might become reality one day, but I don't think it will ever get beyond that. And I am ok with that.
Posted by Volvagia
Fort Worth
Member since Mar 2006
52881 posts
Posted on 7/19/08 at 10:54 am to
I am escatic with that.
Posted by Hot Carl
Prayers up for 3
Member since Dec 2005
61929 posts
Posted on 7/19/08 at 11:14 am to
anything more than 4 teams is too many imho. I might could get on board with a 6 team playoff is the top 2 seeds get byes. To keep the sanctity of the regular season, there has to be a huge advantage to going undefeated/ having the best regular season. I'm content with the BCS though. It is infinitely better than what came before it.
Posted by DVtiger
Alsatian Valley
Member since Aug 2007
663 posts
Posted on 7/19/08 at 11:29 am to
Use the current BCS structure for seeding and add 3 games:

2008-'09
1.) Dec. 22, 2008 - Sugar Bowl - #1 vs. #8.
2.) Dec. 22, 2008 - Rose Bowl - #2 vs. #7.
3.) Dec. 23, 2008 - Fiesta Bowl - #3 vs. #6.
4.) Dec. 23, 2008 - Orange Bowl - #4 vs. #5.
5.) Dec. 29, 2008 - Sugar Bowl - Winners of games 1 & 4.
6.) Dec. 30, 2008 - Fiesta Bowl - Winners of games 2 & 3.
7.) Jan. 7, 2009 - BCS National Championship Game (Pasadena)- Winners of games 5 & 6.
Posted by lsusa
Doing Missionary work for LSU
Member since Oct 2005
6179 posts
Posted on 7/19/08 at 11:30 am to
hmmmm....are these guys running for office?

for the last ten years at least, we have heard nothing but 'the bcs is the debil we must have a playoff' out of the majority of these media hacks.

the cliches really fly from the PRO playoff group. my favorite is 'decide it on the field'.

does the BCS selection process have some problems, sure. but each season it has put two teams ON THE FIELD and let them play for the title. it is much better than the old days when bowl invites were handed out to notre dame in september and everyone else in october.

but just like most of the media glossed over the fact that in 2003 it was really oklahoma that screwed usc out of a chance to play LSU for the title, and that this year it was ohio state whose qualifications for the game were dubious, no one wants to admit that things are pretty good.

how many NFL games mattered in week 17 last season? compare that to the final week of the college football season. i know that i was driving back from atlanta flipping threw staticy AM radio stations trying to pick up the west virginia and oklahoma games.


college football is, bar none, the greatest sport in the nation.

although, i have seen some of these particular guys say they don't have to have a playoff before, i think this is going to be the begining of the media 'revising its policy' ha ha ha.

now, i can't say for sure though, are they doing this just to stir up controversy and sway all the lemmings that have followed them with the idea that it's a moral imperative to have a playoff? or have the actually come to their senses?

Posted by Sir GilbertofVanNuys
Member since Mar 2006
511 posts
Posted on 7/19/08 at 11:33 am to
per a Sugar Bowl committee member, it wont happen before 2017 at the earliest... take it for what its worth..
Posted by Hot Carl
Prayers up for 3
Member since Dec 2005
61929 posts
Posted on 7/19/08 at 11:36 am to
quote:

1.) Dec. 22, 2008 - Sugar Bowl - #1 vs. #8.
2.) Dec. 22, 2008 - Rose Bowl - #2 vs. #7.
3.) Dec. 23, 2008 - Fiesta Bowl - #3 vs. #6.
4.) Dec. 23, 2008 - Orange Bowl - #4 vs. #5.
5.) Dec. 29, 2008 - Sugar Bowl - Winners of games 1 & 4.
6.) Dec. 30, 2008 - Fiesta Bowl - Winners of games 2 & 3.
7.) Jan. 7, 2009 - BCS National Championship Game (Pasadena)- Winners of games 5 & 6.




Where are these games to be played? Do you expect a fanbase to travel to 3 bowl games after possibly a conference championship game? And right around Christmas?


There are quite a few logistical problems with your proposal. Not to mention fairness. You cannot convince me that a 3-loss 8 seed should get to play an undefeated 1 seed with the same chance to advance. That would kill the regular season.


Posted by Palm Beach Tiger
Orlando, Florida
Member since Jan 2007
30063 posts
Posted on 7/19/08 at 11:39 am to
quote:

anything more than 4 teams is too many imho.


I don't think you can do it with less then 8. I just don't see how each conference isn't going to get a rep, in order for them all to agree to it. 6 conference champs plus 2 at large bids, decided by the BCS seems like the most feasible way to do it, IMO.
Posted by lsusa
Doing Missionary work for LSU
Member since Oct 2005
6179 posts
Posted on 7/19/08 at 11:45 am to
another thing to consider is that college football does not have a 'representative schedule' because the sport really doesn't lend itself to one.

in the NFL, you only have 32 teams. each team plays the other teams in its division. each division plays common opponents from another division. the entire schedule is dictated by the league...and it should be noted that they intentionally try to give some teams easier schedules.

the REALITY of the situation is that while 4, 8, or 16 team playoffs may have advantages, they also have enough drawbacks to where you cannot say they are significantly BETTER.

at that point, i think the intrisic value of the history and tradition of college football (which i think is important to start with) should become the deciding factor.
Posted by DVtiger
Alsatian Valley
Member since Aug 2007
663 posts
Posted on 7/19/08 at 11:45 am to
1.) Locations are listed.
2.) Travel increase effects only 2 teams in round two.
3.) All games will be sold out - even around Christmas.
4.) Fairness? - elimination of controversy - consider LSU, USC, Georgia, Oklahoma situations.
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
60665 posts
Posted on 7/19/08 at 11:49 am to
4 team playoff would be ideal IMO. The good thing about the BCS is that the regular season is import. That would still be the case in a 4 team playoff. Plus you avoid situations like 2003 and 2004 were there were 3 teams with a case for the 2 spots. The other downsides is you can get teams like Va Tech in 99 that played a completely garbage schedule, but was 1 of only 2 unbeatens. While I've bee n very impressed with the pollsters willingness to evaluate the entire season the last 2 years, we still could very easily have had a tOSU-UM BCS CG in 2006.

An 8 team playoff would not be the Armageddon most BCS fans make it out to be, but if you just take the top 8, it does diminish the regular season. 16 is 4 extra weeks and not really feasible IMO, but that is the absolute biggest it could go. If you did that and took the winners of all D1 conferences, it would be better, at least it would give the smaller conferences a theoretical shot and a chance at national exposure and revenue they would not get otherwise.
Posted by lsusa
Doing Missionary work for LSU
Member since Oct 2005
6179 posts
Posted on 7/19/08 at 11:59 am to
quote:

Fairness? - elimination of controversy - consider LSU, USC, Georgia, Oklahoma situations.



are rules changed in midstream? i don't think so. so what is 'unfair' about the BCS, the rules of which are set forth before the season and agreed to by every BCS conference and member institution?

yes, there are some flaws in polling - mainly a predetermined order and movement based primarily on losing - but those same flaws are going to exist whether it's a two-team playoff system, a four-team playoff system, an eight team playoff system, etc.

do you think there would be no controversy involving seeding in an eight team playoff? what about uga this year? in or out of an 8 tema playoff, don't you think some yahoo would have said 'well, they can't even win their own division'. someone will want to put a rule in one year that you can't have three teams from a conference, but the next a league will clearly have 3 of the top 5 or 6 clubs.

we have a two-team playoff now.

increasing the size of said playoff is NOT a panacea.

besides, who says a little controversy is a 'bad' thing?
This post was edited on 7/19/08 at 12:01 pm
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
60665 posts
Posted on 7/19/08 at 12:00 pm to
quote:

2.) Travel increase effects only 2 teams in round two.


4 teams would play 2 rounds 2 teams 3, that's alot of extra travel and expense, especially with gas prices at $3-4.

quote:

3.) All games will be sold out - even around Christmas.

You are kidding yourself if you think all games will be sold out. Outside of the BCS CG, most bowls have trouble selling out now.

If you did 8, you'd have to play round one on campus, that would guarantee a sell out. You really couldn't use the same location twice. I'd also play that round earlier than around X-Mas. Let the 4 losers go to Bowls games and then use 2 BCS bowls as semis and play the BCS CG a week or so later.
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
60665 posts
Posted on 7/19/08 at 12:07 pm to
quote:

do you think there would be no controversy involving seeding in an eight team playoff?


of course there would be, there is gripping about teams being left out of the NCAA tourney and that's 65 teams. But that alone is not good enough reason to not have a PO of some kind. The further away from #1 you get the weaker your argument. The teams at #5 and #9 typically have 2 or 3 losses or didn't win their conference.

quote:

increasing the size of said playoff is NOT a panacea.
besides, who says a little controversy is a 'bad' thing?

Its not a panacea, but 4 teams would be better than 2 even though 2 is better than 8.
Posted by DVtiger
Alsatian Valley
Member since Aug 2007
663 posts
Posted on 7/19/08 at 1:30 pm to
I agree:
quote:

are rules changed in midstream? i don't think so. so what is 'unfair' about the BCS, the rules of which are set forth before the season and agreed to by every BCS conference and member institution?


My comment about fairness was a reply to Hot Carl:
quote:

"Not to mention fairness."


Agreed, but the main controversy has never fallen outside of the top 8:
quote:

yes, there are some flaws in polling - mainly a predetermined order and movement based primarily on losing - but those same flaws are going to exist whether it's a two-team playoff system, a four-team playoff system, an eight team playoff system, etc.


Covered under your first point "...the rules of which are set forth before the season and agreed to by every BCS conference and member institution?":
quote:

do you think there would be no controversy involving seeding in an eight team playoff? what about uga this year? in or out of an 8 tema playoff, don't you think some yahoo would have said 'well, they can't even win their own division'. someone will want to put a rule in one year that you can't have three teams from a conference, but the next a league will clearly have 3 of the top 5 or 6 clubs.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
464605 posts
Posted on 7/19/08 at 1:37 pm to
LINK

the 3 part analysis is pretty extensive

...if only the author had remembered to keep updating, especially after this CFB season and the superbowl
This post was edited on 7/19/08 at 1:38 pm
Posted by DVtiger
Alsatian Valley
Member since Aug 2007
663 posts
Posted on 7/19/08 at 1:38 pm to
Check the site rotation - 2 of those teams would play at the same site in first two rounds:
quote:

4 teams would play 2 rounds 2 teams 3, that's alot of extra travel and expense, especially with gas prices at $3-4.


All of the BCS games are guaranteed sell-outs. Whatever the teams can't sell are filled locally through corporate sponsorships:
quote:

You are kidding yourself if you think all games will be sold out. Outside of the BCS CG, most bowls have trouble selling out now.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
464605 posts
Posted on 7/19/08 at 1:39 pm to
quote:

I don't think you can do it with less then 8

then playoffs should never occur

8 teams never have proven themselves worthy of a shot at the title
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
464605 posts
Posted on 7/19/08 at 1:39 pm to
quote:

4.) Fairness? - elimination of controversy

wrong
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
464605 posts
Posted on 7/19/08 at 1:41 pm to
quote:

Agreed, but the main controversy has never fallen outside of the top 8:

well no shite

there are rarely 4 teams who have a legit claim to a title shot...there might not have been a season when 4 teams could make this claim except maybe 2004
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