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Message

If college were free, how many more people would have a degree?
Posted on 2/23/20 at 10:35 pm
Posted on 2/23/20 at 10:35 pm
quote:
Although many Americans are under the impression that higher education is "free" most everywhere outside the US, the fact is only a handful of countries offer tuition-free college. Among large countries with more than ten million people, only France and Germany qualify as "tuition-free."1 Meanwhile, Japan, Australia, Britain, and Canada all require significant out-of-pocket payments from students. (Moreover, once we get into medium-income countries, it's important to consider the costs shown above with the local median income. In Mexico, for example, the $8,020 price tag shown here is more than 175% of the median income in Mexico.)
quote:
But do lower college fees translate into higher graduation rates, and more education? Well, we find that the countries with higher proportions of college graduates tend to be countries with higher college costs for students. Japan, Canada, the US, and Britain are all among the most expensive countries in terms of net cost. Yet, these countries all have higher incidence of college completion among residents.
Meanwhile, in France and Germany, the countries with "free" education, the incidence of college completion is much lower
quote:
But how can this be? After all, pundits and politicians often tell us that higher education is open to all in most of the "industrialized world," and at a very low price.
The problem with this reasoning — and a clue as to why college-completion is lower in the "no-tuition" countries — can be found in the inherent conflict between the two phrases "open to all" and "at a very low price."
In the real world, no scarce resource can be both open to all, and also very inexpensive. So, when it comes to higher education in places where institutions are mostly government-controlled, and ultra-low-tuition is mandated, the government must also intervene to restrict access to higher education, and to keep costs low through other means.
These methods include: Restrict access to higher education through testing and other gate-keeping strategies. Lower "customer service" quality with larger class sizes and fewer amenities.
Mises.org
I’ll add to this by saying that I have seen firsthand how free college isn’t a gateway to more graduates.
In TN the Hope Scholarship - lottery-funded scholarship - only has a 35% freshman retention rate.
Posted on 2/23/20 at 10:41 pm to Eli Goldfinger
Does Germany still screen kids out from college around middle school age?
Posted on 2/23/20 at 10:43 pm to Eli Goldfinger
Germany also has a tack system based upon ability, if you are not on the college track you don't go to college even if it is free.
If we didn't give all of the scholarships, grants and loans to the cognitively deficient, college would be a lot cheaper in the US.
If we didn't give all of the scholarships, grants and loans to the cognitively deficient, college would be a lot cheaper in the US.
Posted on 2/23/20 at 10:44 pm to Eli Goldfinger
You’d definitely have to start doing that here or a bachelors degree becomes equivalent to a high school diploma.
Posted on 2/23/20 at 10:44 pm to Eli Goldfinger
I would be a career student. Free education, food, and housing.... FREE
This post was edited on 2/23/20 at 10:45 pm
Posted on 2/23/20 at 10:45 pm to Eli Goldfinger
Anything that is free has no value.
Nothing is free.
So colleges will invent a next level degree that will not be free. That's how the scam works. Let's say BA/BS is free, Masters is free, PhD, JD, etc is free.
They'll come up with one that isn't free. The Kiss My arse I Paid for a Higher Level Degree ..... degree.
It never ends.
You've either got it or you don't.
If you've got it you'll find a way to cultivate it and develop it and perfect it and make an good living off of it .... but it will not be free.
Nothing is free.
So colleges will invent a next level degree that will not be free. That's how the scam works. Let's say BA/BS is free, Masters is free, PhD, JD, etc is free.
They'll come up with one that isn't free. The Kiss My arse I Paid for a Higher Level Degree ..... degree.
It never ends.
You've either got it or you don't.
If you've got it you'll find a way to cultivate it and develop it and perfect it and make an good living off of it .... but it will not be free.
Posted on 2/23/20 at 10:46 pm to Eli Goldfinger
Anyone who says that college costs are restricting access to college is a moron.
"I wanted to go to college, but I didn't have the money" is an asinine excuse when we have a loan system in place.
Poor high school students in america with great grades will be going to college if they want to. Period. End of story.
America’s college cost issue has to do with struggles of paying debt after graduation
"I wanted to go to college, but I didn't have the money" is an asinine excuse when we have a loan system in place.
Poor high school students in america with great grades will be going to college if they want to. Period. End of story.
America’s college cost issue has to do with struggles of paying debt after graduation
This post was edited on 2/23/20 at 10:55 pm
Posted on 2/23/20 at 10:50 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
(no message)
This post was edited on 6/9/20 at 7:02 pm
Posted on 2/23/20 at 10:54 pm to Eli Goldfinger
It would flood the market with higher #s of qualified workers....so guess what would happen to wages
Posted on 2/23/20 at 10:59 pm to the LSUSaint
quote:
It would flood the market with higher #s of qualified workers..
In theory, but probably not in reality.
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:13 pm to scrooster
quote:maybe someone could come up with a clever tax and give it some euphemism and add an incentive that will make everyone want to pay it.
Anything that is free has no value.
Nothing is free.
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:43 pm to Eli Goldfinger
Just look at TOPS and how many people don't finish. Plenty of people get TOPS scholarships and drop out after a semester or two.
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:48 pm to Eli Goldfinger
Very few. Lots would attend for a year and party like rock stars until they fail out. TOPS shows us this and TOPS isn’t completely free and requires a bit to qualify. Free college would make TOPS look like a very conservative program in comparison.
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:48 pm to Eli Goldfinger
If college were free, there would be no college. Somebody has to pay for that.
As universities are now, however, we're better off without most of them. But that's a different subject.
As universities are now, however, we're better off without most of them. But that's a different subject.
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:50 pm to Eli Goldfinger
Nah.
More will go to college, rate of graduation will not.
More will go to college, rate of graduation will not.
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:52 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
I know many successful people without a degree. College doesn't teach anything you can't find in the real world.
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:55 pm to Eli Goldfinger
quote:
So, when it comes to higher education in places where institutions are mostly government-controlled, and ultra-low-tuition is mandated, the government must also intervene to restrict access to higher education, and to keep costs low through other means.
This also happens with socialized healthcare.
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:58 pm to Metaloctopus
quote:
If college were free, there would be no college. Somebody has to pay for that.
As universities are now, however, we're better off without most of them. But that's a different subject.
Had a long conversation today with a well known state politician about this exact same thing.
Posted on 2/24/20 at 12:02 am to Eli Goldfinger
I will never support college being free. This coming from someone who is working down about $250k worth of college loans (wife and I).
What I do support is trade school incentives. If a young person wants to invest in a career classified as a “trade”, I believe it should warrant serious consideration for incentives.
Those types of degrees and certifications are worth investing in as a society and community; it effectively trains skilled labor in all of our communities.
Besides, we already have free college. It’s called joining the service. Been that way for 70+ years.
What I do support is trade school incentives. If a young person wants to invest in a career classified as a “trade”, I believe it should warrant serious consideration for incentives.
Those types of degrees and certifications are worth investing in as a society and community; it effectively trains skilled labor in all of our communities.
Besides, we already have free college. It’s called joining the service. Been that way for 70+ years.
This post was edited on 2/24/20 at 12:03 am
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