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When I speak of moral objectivity, I'm not talking about how people experience morality. I'm talking about how people receive morality. Moral objectivity is referencing a moral standard that transcends the individual human mind and exists outside of humanity.

Which is a subjective definition because experiencing morality can impact how one receives morality, even objective morality.

Give me an example of a moral absolute, something that comes from outside humanity.

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Subjectivity is denoted by the origin of the standard:

I disagree. The hallmark of subjectivity is interpretation and that interpretation is built by experiences. The interpretation is what creates the subjectivity.

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If morality is subjective and thus originates within our own minds, then it cannot be objective and therefore there cannot be one, single standard that can be rationally used to compare to others.

And that's where the sticking point comes in. You're trying to make an objective observation over something that is inherently subjective. Objective morals can be reached subjectively because objectivity is the extreme end of the subjectivity spectrum.

It's like saying you have a scale of greys but not allowing black or white (which are the necessary ingredients to make grey).

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Posted by FooManChoo

Member since Dec 2012

41824 posts

Posted on 11/9/19 at 3:28 pm to Bard

quote:
Which is a subjective definition because experiencing morality can impact how one receives morality, even objective morality.

We receive morality either subjectively from within ourselves, subjectively from without ourselves but from other people, or from an objective source.

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Give me an example of a moral absolute, something that comes from outside humanity.

God's moral law.

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I disagree. The hallmark of subjectivity is interpretation and that interpretation is built by experiences. The interpretation is what creates the subjectivity.

Interpretation is certainly subjective because it, too, comes from within human beings. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about how we interpret our moral standards, but where the moral standards come from.

A moral standard that comes from my own mind is subjective. A moral standard that is imposed on me from outside my mind or other human minds is objective. This is why I was talking about origins or morality, not simply our experience of it.

I also think you might be wandering into the pool of subjective reality, where there are no absolute truths. That's, at least, how I'm interpreting what you're saying. It seems like you're saying our experience dictates reality rather than reality existing outside of our experiences.

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And that's where the sticking point comes in. You're trying to make an objective observation over something that is inherently subjective. Objective morals can be reached subjectively because objectivity is the extreme end of the subjectivity spectrum.

I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense. Objectivity and subjectivity are conflicting concepts. Objectivity doesn't exist on the far end of the subjective spectrum because we're not talking about a spectrum. Objectivity and subjectivity are black and white concepts.

An objective moral standard is one by definition if it comes from without and is not based on our own feelings, desires, or experiences. If each individual can have a different view of it, it's not objective.