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Message

My fear: LSU is headed down the same road we went down with Les
Posted on 11/5/18 at 8:30 am
Posted on 11/5/18 at 8:30 am
Let me start off by saying I, like very other fan, am sick over the 29-0 home shutout. However, I'm very optimistic for the rest of the year. 10-2 is a very real possibility and we have to keep cheering on our Tigers. The season is not over and the sky is not falling. I'm just fearful that we're heading down the same "okay with 2 or 3 losses every year" road we have been down before. I'm not trying to flame anyone. I'm just trying to have a real and honest discussion.
Les Miles achieved lots of early success which allowed for such flexibility by the DA and BoS when his teams' results started to decline. We as fans enjoyed his success so much but were so frustrated with his failures and the decline.
Coach O came into this 2018 season, technically his 3rd season at LSU, already on the hot seat and with very low expectations. Most fans were predicting only 5-7 wins for the year.
Now fast-forward to today:
We're 7-2 with losses to Florida and what is undoubtedly the greatest college football team to ever exist. We have a very real likelihood of going 10-2 and playing in a very decent, if not, great bowl game.
Of course, we as fans are happy with a 10-2 season and a good bowl game as opposed to a 7-5 or 6-6 season and a crappy bowl. But do we accept 10-2 or 9-3 and just a decent bowl game each year?
Typing that question out makes it seem to me like such a spoiled thing to ask. But let's be real with ourselves for a moment:
Are we going to be so thrilled with the way this season played out, relative to our pre-season expectations, and be okay with a contract extension for Coach O?
Yes, I know if JA wants it to happen it's going to happen whether we're happy with it or not. But my fear is that the administration is going to offer and approve an extension and probably a raise too simply based off of the better than expected results in 2018, even after our abysmal performance against Alabama.
Are we okay with just writing off the Bama game as a loss every September?
I know, I know, Alabama is a freaking machine. They're a playstation game. They're like puppets being controlled by God himself and defy the laws of physics (and football, but that's another discussion). But just because they're in a class of their own and on their own doesn't mean we automatically should accept getting our butts handed to us by them every single year.
Look, I'm thrilled with our overall performance this year and I feel like Coach O is responsible for it. He recruited Burrow and Burrow is a very good game manager. Coach O has given the team fire that it's been lacking for a long time. He has put the fun back in LSU football - I give him total and full credit for that.
But if we're being honest with ourselves, we know deep down that things still have to change in a major way for us to be able to compete with Alabama.
And like it or not, in this age of college football, that's the benchmark. We don't have to beat them every year. Hell, we're not going to beat Mississippi State and Auburn every year. But we have got to beat Bama every 2-3 years and as of this weekend, that hasn't happened in 7 years and 8 games.
What is the answer? Because I don't know what it is. Most of me says a different head coach is not the answer, because I feel like Coach O deserves at least another shot or two at beating Bama. But is the answer to Bama opening the checkbook to the best offensive coordinator in the country? Do we break the bank on a new OC? Do we recruit better? If so, how do we go out and recruit the best of the best when Saban is out there telling those same kids "look, come to Bama and win championships or go to LSU and get beat by us every year"? What do we do? Because as a fan, I'm too tired and frustrated to think. I'm almost kinda of apathetic towards it as well. Which scares me.

Les Miles achieved lots of early success which allowed for such flexibility by the DA and BoS when his teams' results started to decline. We as fans enjoyed his success so much but were so frustrated with his failures and the decline.
Coach O came into this 2018 season, technically his 3rd season at LSU, already on the hot seat and with very low expectations. Most fans were predicting only 5-7 wins for the year.
Now fast-forward to today:
We're 7-2 with losses to Florida and what is undoubtedly the greatest college football team to ever exist. We have a very real likelihood of going 10-2 and playing in a very decent, if not, great bowl game.
Of course, we as fans are happy with a 10-2 season and a good bowl game as opposed to a 7-5 or 6-6 season and a crappy bowl. But do we accept 10-2 or 9-3 and just a decent bowl game each year?
Typing that question out makes it seem to me like such a spoiled thing to ask. But let's be real with ourselves for a moment:
Are we going to be so thrilled with the way this season played out, relative to our pre-season expectations, and be okay with a contract extension for Coach O?
Yes, I know if JA wants it to happen it's going to happen whether we're happy with it or not. But my fear is that the administration is going to offer and approve an extension and probably a raise too simply based off of the better than expected results in 2018, even after our abysmal performance against Alabama.
Are we okay with just writing off the Bama game as a loss every September?
I know, I know, Alabama is a freaking machine. They're a playstation game. They're like puppets being controlled by God himself and defy the laws of physics (and football, but that's another discussion). But just because they're in a class of their own and on their own doesn't mean we automatically should accept getting our butts handed to us by them every single year.
Look, I'm thrilled with our overall performance this year and I feel like Coach O is responsible for it. He recruited Burrow and Burrow is a very good game manager. Coach O has given the team fire that it's been lacking for a long time. He has put the fun back in LSU football - I give him total and full credit for that.
But if we're being honest with ourselves, we know deep down that things still have to change in a major way for us to be able to compete with Alabama.
And like it or not, in this age of college football, that's the benchmark. We don't have to beat them every year. Hell, we're not going to beat Mississippi State and Auburn every year. But we have got to beat Bama every 2-3 years and as of this weekend, that hasn't happened in 7 years and 8 games.
What is the answer? Because I don't know what it is. Most of me says a different head coach is not the answer, because I feel like Coach O deserves at least another shot or two at beating Bama. But is the answer to Bama opening the checkbook to the best offensive coordinator in the country? Do we break the bank on a new OC? Do we recruit better? If so, how do we go out and recruit the best of the best when Saban is out there telling those same kids "look, come to Bama and win championships or go to LSU and get beat by us every year"? What do we do? Because as a fan, I'm too tired and frustrated to think. I'm almost kinda of apathetic towards it as well. Which scares me.
Posted on 11/5/18 at 8:31 am to Wayne Kenoff
Freeze or Petrino for offen coord
Posted on 11/5/18 at 8:32 am to nicholastiger
I don't want Bobby anywhere near LSU. For that matter, I'd be a little concerned with Freeze too but I can sleep better at night with him.
Posted on 11/5/18 at 8:34 am to Wayne Kenoff
Basically what O said Saturday is exactly the mind set Miles had when facing Alabama.
Nothing is wrong with our gameplan or scheme. We just need to get stronger or get stronger players. We need to have the exact same plan but with more muscle. That sounds so much like Miles it's ridiculous. The funny thing is, the SE offensive gameplan has produced WAY worse results than any Miles gameplan against them. So we are worse off in that regard.
Are people not seeing this?
Nothing is wrong with our gameplan or scheme. We just need to get stronger or get stronger players. We need to have the exact same plan but with more muscle. That sounds so much like Miles it's ridiculous. The funny thing is, the SE offensive gameplan has produced WAY worse results than any Miles gameplan against them. So we are worse off in that regard.
Are people not seeing this?
This post was edited on 11/5/18 at 9:25 am
Posted on 11/5/18 at 8:36 am to abellsujr
quote:
The funny thing is, the SE offensive gameplan has produced WAY worse results than any Miles gameplan against them. So we are worse off in that regard.
This is true.
Posted on 11/5/18 at 8:37 am to Wayne Kenoff
A new OC??? But...but...CSE is the best OC in the country...

Posted on 11/5/18 at 8:45 am to Wayne Kenoff
Wait doing the exact same thing we did before is leading to the exact same results??
Weird
Weird
Posted on 11/5/18 at 8:46 am to Wayne Kenoff
quote:
Yes, I know if JA wants it to happen it's going to happen whether we're happy with it or not. But my fear is that the administration is going to offer and approve an extension and probably a raise too simply based off of the better than expected results in 2018, even after our abysmal performance against Alabama.
So are you saying we should not extend O and make it even harder to recruit against Bama? A coach with two years left on his contract is essentially a lame duck and is twisting in the wind. You have to either fire him or extend. Unless the extension ups the buyout or significantly increases base pay nothing really changes.
Posted on 11/5/18 at 8:51 am to Wayne Kenoff
Very well written! Agree whole heartedly.
LSU made the decision to cross the line (so to speak) into putting big money into its football program starting with Saban. Prior to that, 2-3 losses a year was completely acceptable, because it matched not only the mindset but the price of admission.
In 2018, with TAF, ticket prices, parking prices, salaries given out, budget for football as a whole - does not match going 9-3 every year and building on what seems like will end up being a 30 year loss streak to Bama. Add to that the decade long experience of the exact same mistake from Les Miles. You'd think we would have that one down pat by now.
It's kind of like buying a Porsche but demanding that it be a 4 cylinder because that's good enough to get you down the road.
You can't have one, and not the other. If we're going to put the money and resources into the program that we are putting, then why would they settle for just a Steve Ensminger at OC? It doesn't make any sense at all.
LSU made the decision to cross the line (so to speak) into putting big money into its football program starting with Saban. Prior to that, 2-3 losses a year was completely acceptable, because it matched not only the mindset but the price of admission.
In 2018, with TAF, ticket prices, parking prices, salaries given out, budget for football as a whole - does not match going 9-3 every year and building on what seems like will end up being a 30 year loss streak to Bama. Add to that the decade long experience of the exact same mistake from Les Miles. You'd think we would have that one down pat by now.
It's kind of like buying a Porsche but demanding that it be a 4 cylinder because that's good enough to get you down the road.
You can't have one, and not the other. If we're going to put the money and resources into the program that we are putting, then why would they settle for just a Steve Ensminger at OC? It doesn't make any sense at all.
Posted on 11/5/18 at 9:03 am to Wayne Kenoff
Bama has the best players in the country and the best QB they have ever had. It's really just a perfect storm for them and they will be very beatable when they return to having average guys under center.
LSU's talent is not where it needs to be to compete with Bama this year or next. Once Tua is gone then who knows.
Now, I still think they could scheme their way to a closer game (I was an advocate for Briles' and Brohm, and would now tell you anyone from the Leach coaching tree is an upgrade on offense) but they just don't have the horses to play with Alabama. There's no shame in that. Clemson is the only team with the slightest hope of beating the Crimson Tide this year.
LSU's talent is not where it needs to be to compete with Bama this year or next. Once Tua is gone then who knows.
Now, I still think they could scheme their way to a closer game (I was an advocate for Briles' and Brohm, and would now tell you anyone from the Leach coaching tree is an upgrade on offense) but they just don't have the horses to play with Alabama. There's no shame in that. Clemson is the only team with the slightest hope of beating the Crimson Tide this year.
Posted on 11/5/18 at 9:05 am to abellsujr
Who was the genius who wanted SE as OC in the first place...?
Posted on 11/5/18 at 9:14 am to YipSkiddlyDooo
quote:
but they just don't have the horses to play with Alabama.
This line of thinking is bullshite, we have seen it year after year, all while others teams like Ole fricken Miss have fond ways to beat them.
Are we going to beat them consistently every year, probably not but damn atleast being competitive would be nice.
Everyone says how the lines aren't as talented, well there was a thread last night that pointed out our linemen except for I belive 2 are 4 or 5 start recruits.
Hell our dline were all 5 star guys, guess what the dline Bama has only has 1 5 start recruit starting. That is a coaching and player development problem not a talent problem
Posted on 11/5/18 at 9:16 am to Dizz
quote:
So are you saying we should not extend O and make it even harder to recruit against Bama?
He's under contract for 3 more years. If he can't recruit with that, he can get lost.
Posted on 11/5/18 at 9:20 am to Dizz
quote:
So are you saying we should not extend O and make it even harder to recruit against Bama? A
Stop letting recruiting dictate your coaching decisions. Thats how we ended up hamstrung with miles for 5 years too late.
Posted on 11/5/18 at 9:24 am to Wayne Kenoff
quote:
Are we going to be so thrilled with the way this season played out, relative to our pre-season expectations, and be okay with a contract extension for Coach O?
I think 10 wins warrants a rolling 1-year extension. Period.
10 wins do not "happen". Yes, 9 wins at LSU should be par and 8 wins is a bogey. Les miles got fired for too many pars/bogeys at the end, particularly post-2011.
But, LSU fans expecting routine 11 or 12 win seasons in the current environment are frickING crazy. We play Bama, Auburn and Florida EVERY YEAR.
And the years we beat all three, we'll likely have to face Florida (or UGA) in the SEC-CG and Bama in the playoffs.
Nobody is happy about expecting 2 or 3 losses but that's just life.
Posted on 11/5/18 at 9:25 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
He's under contract for 3 more years. If he can't recruit with that, he can get lost.
Why would any kid agree to come to play for a coach whose contract ends before he graduates? There is a reason college coaches don't every coach out their contracts.
It is possible to give an extension which still allows LSU to fire O whenever they want without an increased buyout. The Nikki Fargas extension is an example of it. The buyout did not increase, base salary did not increase, the only thing that went up was incentive bonuses. (I still think she should have been fired)
This post was edited on 11/5/18 at 9:30 am
Posted on 11/5/18 at 9:27 am to Dizz
quote:
Why would any kid agree to come to play for a coach whose contract ends before he graduates? There is a reason college coaches don't every coach out their contracts.
Well then 0 should deliver on his promise to improve the offense. Until he does that, or wins the West, no extension.
Posted on 11/5/18 at 9:30 am to abellsujr
quote:yep. It may be true, but there's more to it than that. And I'll say the same thing regarding Les and it applies to CEO:
Basically what O said Saturday is exactly the mind set Miles had when facing Alabama.
Nothing is wrong with our gameplan or scheme. We just need to get stronger or get stronger players. We need to have the exact same plan but with more muscle. That sounds so much like Miles it's ridiculous. The funny thing is, the SE offensive gameplan has produced WAY worse results than any Miles gameplan against them. So we are worse off in that regard.
You have to scheme to give those players the most advantage play to play and then you can elevate expectations of the individual.
If you aren't using planning/scheming to give the players advantages, you are necessarily 'donating' that advantage to the opponent.
Against equal or greater talents, then necessarily your execution, strength, and individual performance will be worse. You have to do more than just insist they do better, execute better, or get stronger/faster. You have to give them the tools, one of those tools is schematic.
Posted on 11/5/18 at 9:37 am to Wayne Kenoff
quote:
We're 7-2 with losses to Florida and what is undoubtedly the greatest college football team to ever exist.
Can they at least finish the job before making these kinds of proclamations?
They're fantastic, but other "best ever" teams have face-planted at the finish line in the past.
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