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Should corporations be legally considered individuals?

Posted on 6/22/18 at 10:47 am
Posted by tigerdude3232
Member since Nov 2009
730 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 10:47 am
Why are corporations considered individuals? Should we just do away with corporations? If we look back at the creation of corporations, they were only supposed to be government contracts that expired.
quote:

Early American charters were created literally by the people, for the people as a legal convenience. Corporations were "artificial, invisible, intangible," mere financial tools. They were chartered by individual states, not the federal government, which meant they could be kept under close local scrutiny. They were automatically dissolved if they engaged in activities that violated their charter. Limits were placed on how big and powerful companies could become. Even railroad magnate J. P. Morgan, the consummate capitalist, understood that corporations must never become so big that they "inhibit freedom to the point where efficiency [is] endangered."

quote:

In the early history of America, the corporation played an important but subordinate role. The people -- not the corporations -- were in control. So what happened? How did corporations gain power and eventually start exercising more control than the individuals who created them?


Or would it allow the government to control too much?

quote:

The two hundred or so corporations operating in the US by the year 1800 were each kept on fairly short leashes. They weren't allowed to participate in the political process. They couldn't buy stock in other corporations. And if one of them acted improperly, the consequences were severe. In 1832, President Andrew Jackson vetoed a motion to extend the charter of the corrupt and tyrannical Second Bank of the United States, and was widely applauded for doing so. That same year the state of Pennsylvania revoked the charters of ten banks for operating contrary to the public interest. Even the enormous industry trusts, formed to protect member corporations from external competitors and provide barriers to entry, eventually proved no match for the state. By the mid-1800s, antitrust legislation was widely in place.


Has the government changed from being ran by the people for the people to being ran by the companies for the companies in disguise of individual freedom from the oppressive government?
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
140024 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 10:49 am to
Could I register myself as a corporation so I can pay corporate tax rates instead of personal income tax rates?
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
127318 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 10:50 am to
Corporations represent individuals. That’s the point of them. Your argument is a dumb one that’s been rehashed on the internet ever since the common sense Citizens United case was finalized.
Posted by HempHead
Big Sky Country
Member since Mar 2011
56608 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 10:51 am to
Limited liability is a farce, and it is only possible because of government fiat. Corporations would be much more responsible in their actions if stockholders were held personally liable for the actions of a company. I'm a huge hypocrite because I own stock in companies that have done terrible damage, but hey, you play the game that's on the table.
Posted by tigerdude3232
Member since Nov 2009
730 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 10:52 am to
quote:

Limited liability is a farce, and it is only possible because of government fiat. Corporations would be much more responsible in their actions if stockholders were held personally liable for the actions of a company. I'm a huge hypocrite because I own stock in companies that have done terrible damage, but hey, you play the game that's on the table.


Honestly you should get an award for just being honest with yourself and these people
Posted by CptRusty
Basket of Deplorables
Member since Aug 2011
11740 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 10:53 am to
quote:

Corporations would be much more responsible in their actions if stockholders were held personally liable for the actions of a company.


so what would be the point of the corporation / LLC?

quote:

Limited liability is a farce,


without protections from our overly litigious society no one would be able to start a business. The risks would be far too great. Only the richest of the rich would have the financial wherewithal to offer services to the public. Limited Liability is essential.
This post was edited on 6/22/18 at 10:55 am
Posted by HempHead
Big Sky Country
Member since Mar 2011
56608 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 10:54 am to
quote:

Honestly you should get an award for just being honest with yourself and these people



I already get a monetary award, don't blow smoke up my arse.
Posted by Parmen
Member since Apr 2016
18317 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 10:54 am to
Yes
Posted by HempHead
Big Sky Country
Member since Mar 2011
56608 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 10:54 am to
quote:

so what would be the point of the corporation / LLC?



Capital.
Posted by GoCrazyAuburn
Member since Feb 2010
40380 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 10:55 am to
quote:

Why are corporations considered individuals?


Because a collection of people have rights just as a single person does. Are you also asking for us to do away with all organizations that have the rights of a person?

quote:

Should we just do away with corporations?


No.

quote:

If we look back at the creation of corporations, they were only supposed to be government contracts that expired.


They still are.

quote:

Has the government changed from being ran by the people for the people to being ran by the companies for the companies in disguise of individual freedom from the oppressive government?


No. The amount of interests the government is now responsible for overseeing is just much much wider. Politicians have also become much shittier. This is not because corporations have the rights of individuals. This is because the individual no longer holds the government accountable for its actions.
Posted by tigerdude3232
Member since Nov 2009
730 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 10:58 am to
quote:

Corporations represent individuals. That’s the point of them. Your argument is a dumb one that’s been rehashed on the internet ever since the common sense Citizens United case was finalized.


You must not follow politics....Most people in power are business men, not politicians. I want someone working for us not their company and personal gains. Lobbying should be illegal.
Posted by tigerdude3232
Member since Nov 2009
730 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 11:01 am to
quote:

If we look back at the creation of corporations, they were only supposed to be government contracts that expired.


They still are.


They expired when the bridge was completed or the building was finished. Completely different than a yearly renewal bro....you know that and I know that
Posted by GoCrazyAuburn
Member since Feb 2010
40380 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 11:02 am to
quote:

They expired when the bridge was completed or the building was finished. Completely different than a yearly renewal bro....you know that and I know that


That still exists.
Posted by tigerdude3232
Member since Nov 2009
730 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 11:02 am to
quote:

No. The amount of interests the government is now responsible for overseeing is just much much wider. Politicians have also become much shittier. This is not because corporations have the rights of individuals. This is because the individual no longer holds the government accountable for its actions.


To be fair the government didn't hold the corporations accountable for going bankrupt...they just gave them our money
Posted by tigerdude3232
Member since Nov 2009
730 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 11:03 am to
quote:

quote:
They expired when the bridge was completed or the building was finished. Completely different than a yearly renewal bro....you know that and I know that


That still exists.


What do you mean? I'm saying should that be the only way a corporation could exist, not make sure its an option.
Posted by GoCrazyAuburn
Member since Feb 2010
40380 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 11:04 am to
quote:

To be fair the government didn't hold the corporations accountable for going bankrupt...they just gave them our money



And who holds the government accountable?
Posted by GoCrazyAuburn
Member since Feb 2010
40380 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 11:05 am to
quote:

What do you mean? I'm saying should that be the only way a corporation could exist, not make sure its an option.



That is an awful idea. So, you would have to file new articles of incorporation for all new projects? Talk about overburdening a system.
Posted by Ingloriousbastard
Member since May 2015
917 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 11:06 am to
So you’re saying that individual stockholders should be able to be sued for the actions of the company? Or is this in regards to taxation for the corporations?
Posted by HempHead
Big Sky Country
Member since Mar 2011
56608 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 11:07 am to
quote:

And who holds the government accountable?



The government. Which is our problem, really. You can argue that 'we the people' should hold them accountable, but that isn't realistic until they have done such a bad job that we are starving and unable to enjoy life.
Posted by CptRusty
Basket of Deplorables
Member since Aug 2011
11740 posts
Posted on 6/22/18 at 11:08 am to
quote:

So you’re saying that individual stockholders should be able to be sued for the actions of the company?


This is Hemphead's brilliant suggestion.

Can you imagine?
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