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Message
Investing Advice
Posted on 6/1/18 at 2:02 pm
Posted on 6/1/18 at 2:02 pm
Looking for some options/advice for investing.. Summary below:
-28 years old Houston TX (0 wifes 0 kids)
-Bring home 2500 bi weekly, not including offshore time.. Annual income around 115-120k
-13% into 401k, company matches 100% up to 3%
-35k in 401k
-40k in savings, 10k in checking
Debt
-200k mortgage @ 3.5% - $1,450 monthly, pay $1,700. Rent one room for $550
-22k in truck @ 1.0% - $525 monthly, pay $525
-14k in boat @ 4.0 % - $150 monthly, pay $250
-0 credit card debt
Looking to keep around 15-20k in the bank & invest the rest.. Have considered purchasing a rental property, couple acres in central tx or east tx. Splitting the cash between blue chip stocks..
Any ideas / suggestions would be appreciated.
-28 years old Houston TX (0 wifes 0 kids)
-Bring home 2500 bi weekly, not including offshore time.. Annual income around 115-120k
-13% into 401k, company matches 100% up to 3%
-35k in 401k
-40k in savings, 10k in checking
Debt
-200k mortgage @ 3.5% - $1,450 monthly, pay $1,700. Rent one room for $550
-22k in truck @ 1.0% - $525 monthly, pay $525
-14k in boat @ 4.0 % - $150 monthly, pay $250
-0 credit card debt
Looking to keep around 15-20k in the bank & invest the rest.. Have considered purchasing a rental property, couple acres in central tx or east tx. Splitting the cash between blue chip stocks..
Any ideas / suggestions would be appreciated.
Posted on 6/1/18 at 2:23 pm to LSUmajek
not including offshore time? man.. I want that one.. looks like I'm underpaid.
Posted on 6/1/18 at 3:29 pm to LSUmajek
You have well above average income for your age (and presumably a HS education?) - which is the good news. The bad news, you may be at the ceiling of what's reasonable unless something changes - management, increased skill rating, etc.
You have a little bit of a spending problem - no reason for a kid your age to be almost $300k in debt and yet so liquid. I would eliminate that truck note and, particularly the boat note. Good job on the credit card debt.
So, now to the "advice" advice - I would still retire as much of that $36k money hole debt (even at 1%, it is silly to pay any interest at all on a vehicle, whose value drops every day). With those gone, you immediately set your new investment contribution (not counting your 401K) at around $650 to $700 per month (the debt service on your non-mortgage debt, currently) - and STAY IN THAT HABIT.
That contribution - by itself is going to be raw inputs of ~$8k per year - with even modest growth (6% to 8%) is going to be in the neighborhood of half a million when you're 50, and a million at 60. Now, a million dollars ain't what it used to be, but if you're 60 and you plan on living to 85 or so, that's about $5k or a little better per month without batting an eye - not counting your 401k or SS.
So, I would go further - particularly if you're likely to not stay with this particular company for 30 years - drop your 401k to the minimum required to get the match, open a Vanguard IRA, research some Vanguard Index funds - and just dump as much as you can afford in there per paycheck - I would go traditional in your situation until you hit the max.
Conventional wisdom is - if you expect to make less in retirement that you're making now, make your contributions traditional now - you get the guaranteed tax savings now, and have to pay taxes on retirement income. If you think your retirement income will be greater than your income now - go Roth now - pay the taxes now, not later.
Avoid commercial debt - drive the truck/use the boat as long as you can stand it - you should be liquid enough in short order to negotiate/pay cash for everything and just pay yourself back with extra contributions.
Good luck - you're in a good situation right now, but that can change on a dime.
Because of your line of work, I would also strongly consider long-term disability insurance.
You have a little bit of a spending problem - no reason for a kid your age to be almost $300k in debt and yet so liquid. I would eliminate that truck note and, particularly the boat note. Good job on the credit card debt.
So, now to the "advice" advice - I would still retire as much of that $36k money hole debt (even at 1%, it is silly to pay any interest at all on a vehicle, whose value drops every day). With those gone, you immediately set your new investment contribution (not counting your 401K) at around $650 to $700 per month (the debt service on your non-mortgage debt, currently) - and STAY IN THAT HABIT.
That contribution - by itself is going to be raw inputs of ~$8k per year - with even modest growth (6% to 8%) is going to be in the neighborhood of half a million when you're 50, and a million at 60. Now, a million dollars ain't what it used to be, but if you're 60 and you plan on living to 85 or so, that's about $5k or a little better per month without batting an eye - not counting your 401k or SS.
So, I would go further - particularly if you're likely to not stay with this particular company for 30 years - drop your 401k to the minimum required to get the match, open a Vanguard IRA, research some Vanguard Index funds - and just dump as much as you can afford in there per paycheck - I would go traditional in your situation until you hit the max.
Conventional wisdom is - if you expect to make less in retirement that you're making now, make your contributions traditional now - you get the guaranteed tax savings now, and have to pay taxes on retirement income. If you think your retirement income will be greater than your income now - go Roth now - pay the taxes now, not later.
Avoid commercial debt - drive the truck/use the boat as long as you can stand it - you should be liquid enough in short order to negotiate/pay cash for everything and just pay yourself back with extra contributions.
Good luck - you're in a good situation right now, but that can change on a dime.
Because of your line of work, I would also strongly consider long-term disability insurance.
This post was edited on 6/1/18 at 3:34 pm
Posted on 6/1/18 at 4:13 pm to Ace Midnight
Ace,
Appreciate the detailed response & do agree that paying off the boat is probably the first I should do. However, i'm not too sure about paying off the truck while I have it locked in at 1%. Feel i can make more off of my money utilizing a different avenue, what that avenue is, i'm not sure yet.
In regards to my career & education, currently a PM for a Subsea Controls & Installation contractor with my degree from LSU - Business Management. in line to take over my bosses position when he gets promoted, which should be shortly.
Appreciate the detailed response & do agree that paying off the boat is probably the first I should do. However, i'm not too sure about paying off the truck while I have it locked in at 1%. Feel i can make more off of my money utilizing a different avenue, what that avenue is, i'm not sure yet.
In regards to my career & education, currently a PM for a Subsea Controls & Installation contractor with my degree from LSU - Business Management. in line to take over my bosses position when he gets promoted, which should be shortly.
Posted on 6/1/18 at 4:35 pm to LSUmajek
Personally, I would just invest up to the match for the 401K and invest the other 10% in something more liquid like an Mutual Fund you can withdraw and add to with no transaction fee. If you’re disciplined and won’t spend the money because it’s more liquid than your 401K, I think the flexibility is better. Also, I would move some of that 40K in savings into some sort of investment as well.
I see Ace gave similar advice, I echo what he said.
I see Ace gave similar advice, I echo what he said.
This post was edited on 6/1/18 at 4:37 pm
Posted on 6/1/18 at 4:39 pm to TheWalrus
quote:
Personally, I would just invest up to the match for the 401K and invest the other 10% in something more liquid like an Mutual Fund
This is dumb as a blanket statement. It could be better, but without knowing more on how much contributing pretax is doing for him you can't really make that recommendation.
OP, has far as the car, don't pay it off early. That would be incredibly stupid. At 1% you are Making money on that loan.
Posted on 6/1/18 at 4:59 pm to LSUmajek
quote:
However, i'm not too sure about paying off the truck while I have it locked in at 1%.
I look at it this way - if you're disciplined enough to pay it off and invest the truck payment (even if it's something liquid, like a set aside "new truck" fund), you're going to come out ahead, regardless of how "free" the money is right now.
Dumping cash into the market, sporadically, eliminates the biggest safety feature in the "buy and hold" strategy - dollar cost averaging - that alone should eat any marginal differences in yield on that money - plus it gets you "out" of the habit of a truck note and "into" the habit of saving money yourself, borrowing money "from" yourself and never paying anybody any interest, ever.
On the other hand, at 1%, if you know that you will weaken and just buy another truck because you "miss" the truck note, then a better yield would be to pay down on the house. I know the min/maxxers will quibble with this, but putting the money in your house is essentially a guaranteed yield of your interest rate for the rest of the time you hold the mortgage.
You can do the "snowball" - pay off the boat, and then throw the boat payment into the truck - you'll pay it off quicker, but not dump your cash into the truck all at once. But, again, I'd rather see you commercial debt free, and pouring $700, $800, maybe $1000 into your savings/investments and build that wealth growing habit, rather than borrowing and convince yourself you're "getting over" - because in my opinion, you're not.
Borrowing money for a house? That makes sense. It's not a legitimate investment, but is a functional one. Tax advantages notwithstanding, it is the most sure way for the middle class to build wealth.
Borrowing money for a "real" investment, meaning one that will make you money? If the ROI is right? Sure - that's a rich person habit.
But borrowing money for transportation/recreation? I get that folks don't want to drive beaters, but vehicles are terrible uses of money - doubly (or trebly) so if you're paying interest on top of the money poorly spent. That's why I recommend breaking the habit and never going back.
Posted on 6/1/18 at 5:03 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
This is dumb as a blanket statement.
quote:
OP, has far as the car, don't pay it off early. That would be incredibly stupid. At 1% you are Making money on that loan.
And then you immediately make a, no offense, dumb blanket statement?
If the alternative to the 1% note is a new 4% note, sure, he's effectively "making" money on the current loan. But, not really, because he's still paying somebody else. They're not in the market of making money on the loan, they already made their money on the sale.
But, if the alternative is to dump cash into equities now and keep the note, you'll be hard pressed to min/max a huge windfall versus him paying off the truck now (while committing to driving it until the wheels fall off) and sending that $500+ per month into an investment account. Again, for the life of this loan, dollar cost averaging almost guarantees the yield will be minimal of A versus B.
Posted on 6/1/18 at 5:05 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Ace Midnight
AKA Dave Ramsey.
quote:
But borrowing money for transportation/recreation? I get that folks don't want to drive beaters, but vehicles are terrible uses of money - doubly (or trebly) so if you're paying interest on top of the money poorly spent. That's why I recommend breaking the habit and never going back.
If you are as disciplined as you talk about above you would absolutely want to use leverage to maximize your returns and cash flows. I get that a lot of people can't, but using the above as a blanket statement is incredibly misguided.
Posted on 6/1/18 at 5:06 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
It's not a legitimate investment, but is a functional one.
Actually, I should correct this - OP - YOUR house actually is a legitimate investment, because you're renting out a room. Anything that generates actual or potential (by intent) income is a legitimate investment. Anything else, when you hear vehicles or most homes as "investments"? They're not. Your house is a rare exception.
Posted on 6/1/18 at 5:08 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
but using the above as a blanket statement is incredibly misguided.
I'm not using it as a blanket statement - it just is good, long-term advice for most people, period.
I outlined at least 1 scenario where it would be better to keep the 1% note. I rarely see that from the "make money by borrowing money on shite that doesn't make any money" folks.
Posted on 6/2/18 at 12:03 pm to LSUmajek
TLDR but the first guy seemed to be on to something, but I’d add you won’t be able to take a deduction on an IRA, but a Roth is an option if you’re not worried too much about those taxes if nobody said this.
Sounds like you’ll end up going back to the 401k though since you should be saving way more than $5500 year (especially if you reduced the 401k down to the match as suggested).
Sounds like you’ll end up going back to the 401k though since you should be saving way more than $5500 year (especially if you reduced the 401k down to the match as suggested).
Posted on 6/2/18 at 2:49 pm to LSUmajek
get debt free other than mortgage and max out a Roth IRA every year.
Checkout the Schwab intelligent IRA setup. No fees and actively managed/rebalanced for you.
Checkout the Schwab intelligent IRA setup. No fees and actively managed/rebalanced for you.
Posted on 6/3/18 at 4:27 am to LSUmajek
what is the goal for investing?
imo, OP is in great position..i think when i was that age i had $150k in student loan debt and zero income.
if no wife and kids i'd become an "extreme saver"...
the house is fine...obviously get rid of the boat.
and i'd try to trade in or get rid of truck payment also..
review this wiki:
LINK
with your age and take home...you COULD be able to retire within 4-5 years (if that was a goal)
imo, what to invest in is less important than having the desire and aptitude to invest.
(try to find an online summary of the classic "zurich axioms" by gunther max--explains much better than i can)
what i would do...keep doing what you already are.
purchase more income producing property if possible. ...and invest regularly in a S&P500 index fund for your stocks
imo, OP is in great position..i think when i was that age i had $150k in student loan debt and zero income.
if no wife and kids i'd become an "extreme saver"...
the house is fine...obviously get rid of the boat.
and i'd try to trade in or get rid of truck payment also..
review this wiki:
LINK
with your age and take home...you COULD be able to retire within 4-5 years (if that was a goal)
imo, what to invest in is less important than having the desire and aptitude to invest.
(try to find an online summary of the classic "zurich axioms" by gunther max--explains much better than i can)
what i would do...keep doing what you already are.
purchase more income producing property if possible. ...and invest regularly in a S&P500 index fund for your stocks
Posted on 6/3/18 at 7:30 am to mrgreenpants
quote:
if no wife and kids i'd become an "extreme saver"...
the house is fine...obviously get rid of the boat.
and i'd try to trade in or get rid of truck payment also..
Seriously, do y'all do anything fun? The dude makes more than 100k and is effectively paying like 500 bucks for his mortgage, if he wants a boat thats fine. And if he has a boat, he'll need a truck. I save or service debt with like 40-50% of my income, and I don't even make that much yet, but I'm not going to eat beans and rice and be miserable to save a little more money, especially at my age.
Posted on 6/3/18 at 11:33 am to LSUmajek
Throw some cash into FB and Amazon. Neither are going anywhere for the next 10 years.
This post was edited on 6/3/18 at 11:34 am
Posted on 6/3/18 at 10:27 pm to LSUmajek
It’s not about your income, it’s about your assets and liabilities. It seems your liabilities are far outweighing your assets right now.
Posted on 6/3/18 at 10:30 pm to Sev09
quote:
It’s not about your income, it’s about your assets and liabilities. It seems your liabilities are far outweighing your assets right now.
He has more in cash than all of his liabilities not withstanding mortgage?
Posted on 6/3/18 at 10:48 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
These threads always end the same way. Not everyone will give the same advice because everyone has different preferences. Some don’t want any debt and others are comfortable with lots of leverage.
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