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Message
re: Inputs on Afiganistan from reputable people
Posted on 8/22/17 at 9:07 am to StraightCashHomey21
Posted on 8/22/17 at 9:07 am to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
shite they probably dont believe in Afghanistan in general
Would rather live under their tribal provinces
You are exactly right. The "central government" means absolutely nothing to the average Afghan. They believe in family, tribe, and province in that order in a simplistic view of the country and its dynamics. There is no such thing as "national pride" and most view the central government as oppressive and/or corrupt OR both... It provides nothing of value toward their daily life and if anything simply gets in the way of how they wish to live or robs them blind...
The other major factor in why the Taliban was able to make a resurgence is our plan to eradicate the poppies... Again, being simplistic here but their entire economy was based on poppies and we came in, said "poppies are bad, here grow some wheat"... This destroyed the local trading economy... Sure the poppies were used to fund the Taliban but they also served as currency for the people...
Unfortunately, I view it as a lost cause... What little trust that was established when the Taliban was removed from power has eroded over the years with mistake, after mistake, after mistake...
0
Posted on 8/22/17 at 9:19 am to jcolding41
Here's my 2 cents.
The US military Officers advising Trump right now represent the best warfighting training and experience that the USA has probably ever produced. The USA did not produce such highly trained Officers until after Vietnam. We didn't have a great Officer corps in Vietnam, so there was much room for improvement.
This "warfighting advice team" will provide the very best advice to be had WRT any military solution or political-military solution. IMHO, they are providing Trump with an opportunity to resolve the situation there. If this solution proves to be, shall we say, NOT a solution, we might see more of a phased withdrawal solution.
Maybe they want to give a military solution one more chance. One more and then phased withdrawal, because we know that many experienced warfighters will tell us that there IS NO military solution to Afghanistan.
The US military Officers advising Trump right now represent the best warfighting training and experience that the USA has probably ever produced. The USA did not produce such highly trained Officers until after Vietnam. We didn't have a great Officer corps in Vietnam, so there was much room for improvement.
This "warfighting advice team" will provide the very best advice to be had WRT any military solution or political-military solution. IMHO, they are providing Trump with an opportunity to resolve the situation there. If this solution proves to be, shall we say, NOT a solution, we might see more of a phased withdrawal solution.
Maybe they want to give a military solution one more chance. One more and then phased withdrawal, because we know that many experienced warfighters will tell us that there IS NO military solution to Afghanistan.
Posted on 8/22/17 at 10:10 am to Champagne
I just find it interesting that NSA McMaster wrote "Dereliction of Duty", placing blame for Vietnam on the decisions of Johnson & McNamara.
quote:
"The war in Vietnam was not lost in the field, nor was it lost on the front pages of The New York Times, or on the college campuses. It was lost in Washington, D.C., even before Americans assumed sole responsibility for the fighting in 1965 and before they realized the country was at war. . . . [It was] a uniquely human failure, the responsibility for which was shared by President Johnson and his principal military and civilian advisors."
Posted on 8/22/17 at 10:16 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
My best friend is an SF medic who has done three tours over there. He told me several years ago that no matter how many of them we kill, after we leave nothing will have changed.
We really have two options. 1) be in the Middle East forever and create a moderately stable region, or 2) pull out and have the region in disarray.
Both options suck. The world would be a better place if we let Israel do what it wants to do with those people.
This post was edited on 8/22/17 at 10:17 am
Posted on 8/22/17 at 10:48 am to jcolding41
its a tribal society mainly, outside of kabul, kandahar, ghazni, and bagram.
whatever the village elders decide then thats what the village will adhere to. that can mean supporting the terrorist, or coaliation forces, or not supporting either one of them or will try to fight both.
heck even the pashtun people have tribes within their own people that fights with each other. you could even have a pashtunistan as a land thats between pakistan and afghanistan.
whatever the village elders decide then thats what the village will adhere to. that can mean supporting the terrorist, or coaliation forces, or not supporting either one of them or will try to fight both.
heck even the pashtun people have tribes within their own people that fights with each other. you could even have a pashtunistan as a land thats between pakistan and afghanistan.
Posted on 8/22/17 at 10:49 am to GetCocky11
Correct
Posted on 8/22/17 at 10:55 am to lsucoonass
our platoon used to provide security for the afghan truck drivers and their jingle trucks (poor looking christmas colored lights and bells and other shirt were plastered on these trucks as well as large pictures) the drivers were always high and then they would break away from our convoy and of course we would get shite from our battalion commander about that.
then you would see busses entering the outskirts of kabul going 80 mph in the dirt and the hitting the bumps because they were scared of ied's.
it was also really seeing this lone woman and toddler out in kabul in the nighttime when our convoy would go through, she was always at the same location at the same time. this was the only woman i saw out at night.
then there was this building that had banquets, wedding ceremonies, and probably a whore house all mixed into one.
then you would see busses entering the outskirts of kabul going 80 mph in the dirt and the hitting the bumps because they were scared of ied's.
it was also really seeing this lone woman and toddler out in kabul in the nighttime when our convoy would go through, she was always at the same location at the same time. this was the only woman i saw out at night.
then there was this building that had banquets, wedding ceremonies, and probably a whore house all mixed into one.
Posted on 8/22/17 at 11:01 am to Lima Whiskey
quote:
I remember reading an AAR where the villiage women blew up a well we built them.
Apparently the long walk to the river was the only time they got to get out of the house, and away from their husbands
Was this not a scene from Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
ETA: Sticking to the topic of this thread, I don't think there is a solution to Afghanistan or that area of the world, short of total annihilation. The people, as a whole, don't like us. I think we should stick to counter terrorism and leave the internal politics to them. If they want to live under a brutal theocracy, let them. Just send a clear message that any terrorist group that are plotting destruction to us or our allies will be dealt with quickly.
This post was edited on 8/22/17 at 11:10 am
Posted on 8/22/17 at 11:13 am to DeafJam73
it is either this, or a total annihilation
Posted on 8/22/17 at 11:22 am to jcolding41
i never witnessed anything like this but a major problem is the bacha bazi (my spelling may be off), there used to be a documentary on youtube regarding this issue.
its essentially wealthier afghan men who take young boys from their parents homes, promising the parents that their child will receive an education, and the men wind up making them dance and dress as girls. the young boy are used as servants and are sexually abused.
As they get older, pre teens or early teen, they are then traded off once they get older.
its essentially wealthier afghan men who take young boys from their parents homes, promising the parents that their child will receive an education, and the men wind up making them dance and dress as girls. the young boy are used as servants and are sexually abused.
As they get older, pre teens or early teen, they are then traded off once they get older.
Posted on 8/22/17 at 11:23 am to lsucoonass
That's disgusting. And the people there just let it happen?
Posted on 8/22/17 at 11:27 am to DeafJam73
They cooperate with anything the Muslim men say. It doesn't matter if it's rape or if they're terrorists.
Posted on 8/22/17 at 11:31 am to AndyCBR
Never saw it. Glad the story got some play though.
It explains a lot about Afghanistan, and our failure to understand the Afghans.
It explains a lot about Afghanistan, and our failure to understand the Afghans.
Posted on 8/22/17 at 11:35 am to lsucoonass
Partition would make the most sense. You'd split the country along a line running se to ne. The southern state would be Pashtun, and you could incorporate the Pashtun lands in the Pakistani side of the Durand Line. It would be a violent place, but it would make sense, in terms of culture and geography.
This post was edited on 8/22/17 at 11:39 am
Posted on 8/22/17 at 11:38 am to Champagne
The problem with our military leadership is that they can't, won't, consider withdrawal. They're also political creatures.
They'll keep hammering away with a token military effort until the very end.
They'll keep hammering away with a token military effort until the very end.
Posted on 8/22/17 at 11:53 am to Lima Whiskey
There is no end game to the stan
Lets just gtfo and let them kill each other off with the in fighting that will happen.
Once there is a winner we deal with them.
Or let China finally enter the region and see how tough their military is. China would love to add that poppy to their heroin trade.
Lets just gtfo and let them kill each other off with the in fighting that will happen.
Once there is a winner we deal with them.
Or let China finally enter the region and see how tough their military is. China would love to add that poppy to their heroin trade.
Posted on 8/22/17 at 11:54 am to jcolding41
I was talking to my army buddies last night and they are actually excited to get back in it because of the squeezing of pakistan. I'm excited about possibly going as well
Posted on 8/22/17 at 12:03 pm to StraightCashHomey21
I'd be happy to leave it to the Chinese to handle.
Beijing is a whole lot closer to the problem than we are. Perhaps, in their brutality, they'll find a solution.
Beijing is a whole lot closer to the problem than we are. Perhaps, in their brutality, they'll find a solution.
Posted on 8/22/17 at 12:23 pm to Lima Whiskey
yep
Posted on 8/22/17 at 12:29 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
Or let China finally enter the region and see how tough their military is. China would love to add that poppy to their heroin trade.
SO what's China's potential reasoning for going to Afghan?
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