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re: WSJ: GOP Operative Sought Clinton Emails From Hackers, Implied a Connection to Flynn

Posted on 7/1/17 at 8:09 am to
Posted by DawgsLife
Member since Jun 2013
60230 posts
Posted on 7/1/17 at 8:09 am to
quote:

How did Mr Smith die he ask?


Well, he was 81, soooo....
Posted by DawgsLife
Member since Jun 2013
60230 posts
Posted on 7/1/17 at 8:17 am to
The e-mails in question? The 33,000 that Hillary said were deleted from her server because they were of a personal nature.
So, if they are a personal nature and just talked about Chelsea's wedding, yoga class and benign stuff like that, what is the big deal?

Smith was targeting 33,000 emails that Clinton said were deleted — and not provided to investigators — because they were personal.

Also, Comey has already said he does not believe the server was hacked. We know that Hillary had at least some Top Secret e-mails on her server that she claimed was secure. if somebody, (Russians according to your link) hacked her server, it stands to reason we had Top Secret E-mails hacked as well, does it not?

Former FBI Director James Comey has said there is no evidence Clinton's private server has been hacked, but he left open the possibility it might have been.

Was Hillary Hacked, or not?
Posted by DawgsLife
Member since Jun 2013
60230 posts
Posted on 7/1/17 at 8:25 am to
quote:

If Putin gives anything of value to your campaign, that is illegal.


And yet:
Hillary Clinton campaign chair John Podesta on alleged Kremlin-backed investment: It’s not true

During an interview with the FOX Business Network’s Maria Bartiromo, John Podesta, Hillary Clinton’s 2016 campaign chairman, pushed back on claims that his investment in a small energy company, Joule Energy, was backed by the Russian government.

Podesta sparked a heated debate with Bartiromo after she stated that he was “given 75,000 shares in a Russian company.”


Russia and Podesta connection?

Or if you like this better:
Wikileaks Bombshell: John Podesta Owned 75,000 Shares in Putin-Connected Energy Company
Russians all over the Hillary campaign
Posted by DawgsLife
Member since Jun 2013
60230 posts
Posted on 7/1/17 at 8:28 am to
quote:

The document was dated Sept. 7, 2016. That was around the time Mr. Smith said he started his search for 33,000 emails Mrs. Clinton deleted from the private server she used for official business while secretary of state.


I'm confused...the FBI could not recover the 33,000 emails Hillary deleted, but this guy could?
Posted by TigerDoc
Texas
Member since Apr 2004
10321 posts
Posted on 7/1/17 at 8:39 am to
This part is confusing. The story doesn't confirm he had emails, only that he was seeking them, that he talked to hackers he thought were Russian who said they had emails and that he approached the British cybersecurity guy, Tait, to authenticate emails but he declined.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
91238 posts
Posted on 7/1/17 at 8:41 am to
quote:

Mr. Smith, who was 81 years old, died on May 14


FTFY
Posted by ChineseBandit58
Pearland, TX
Member since Aug 2005
44521 posts
Posted on 7/1/17 at 8:52 am to
quote:

whole new avenue

And that is all that is needed to keep this SC investigation going ad infinitum.

This was the dumbest thing ever - to launch a never ending investigation based on a bunch of 'what-ifs.'
Posted by MadDoggyStyle
Member since Feb 2012
3857 posts
Posted on 7/1/17 at 8:54 am to
His name was Seth Rich.
Posted by DawgsLife
Member since Jun 2013
60230 posts
Posted on 7/1/17 at 9:08 am to
quote:

This part is confusing. The story doesn't confirm he had emails, only that he was seeking them, that he talked to hackers he thought were Russian who said they had emails and that he approached the British cybersecurity guy, Tait, to authenticate emails but he declined.


The entire story is a bunch of Insinuations, guesses, and maybes.


It appears as if they are just trying to establish that somebody from the Trump team was, indeed attempting to get e-mails from the Russians. I am guessing the point is to prove collusion with Russians, and hopefully, later on connect that collusion to the Russian government.

Seems like a mighty large stretch, since the guy never plainly said he was in contact with Flynn, but merely hinted at it in order to raise money. Honestly? I think the guy was trying to appear more connected than he really was by dropping names in an effort to raise money.
This post was edited on 7/1/17 at 9:10 am
Posted by TigerDoc
Texas
Member since Apr 2004
10321 posts
Posted on 7/1/17 at 10:44 am to
That was kind of plausible with the WSJ stories alone. Tait's account, though, says this (link in my post on page 2):

quote:

Although it wasn’t initially clear to me how independent Smith’s operation was from Flynn or the Trump campaign, it was immediately apparent that Smith was both well connected within the top echelons of the campaign and he seemed to know both Lt. Gen. Flynn and his son well. Smith routinely talked about the goings on at the top of the Trump team, offering deep insights into the bizarre world at the top of the Trump campaign. Smith told of Flynn’s deep dislike of DNI Clapper, whom Flynn blamed for his dismissal by President Obama. Smith told of Flynn’s moves to position himself to become CIA Director under Trump, but also that Flynn had been persuaded that the Senate confirmation process would be prohibitively difficult. He would instead therefore become National Security Advisor should Trump win the election, Smith said. He also told of a deep sense of angst even among Trump loyalists in the campaign, saying “Trump often just repeats whatever he’s heard from the last person who spoke to him,” and expressing the view that this was especially dangerous when Trump was away.


I'm no espionage expert, but from some secondary sources I've read, the Russian government uses "cut-outs" to provide layers of nonaccountibility. It does make the connections harder to prove.
Posted by BigAppleBucky
New York
Member since Jan 2014
1807 posts
Posted on 7/1/17 at 2:40 pm to
Related story from one of the WSJ's sources.

Lawfare

The Time I Got Recruited to Collude with the Russians

quote:

. . . , Smith and his associates’ knowledge of the inner workings of the campaign were insightful beyond what could be obtained by merely attending Republican events or watching large amounts of news coverage. But one thing I could not place, at least initially, was whether Smith was working on behalf of the campaign, or whether he was acting independently to help the campaign in his personal capacity.

Then, a few weeks into my interactions with Smith, he sent me a document, ostensibly a cover page for a dossier of opposition research to be compiled by Smith’s group, and which purported to clear up who was involved. The document was entitled “A Demonstrative Pedagogical Summary to be Developed and Released Prior to November 8, 2016,” and dated September 7. It detailed a company Smith and his colleagues had set up as a vehicle to conduct the research: “KLS Research”, set up as a Delaware LLC “to avoid campaign reporting,” and listing four groups who were involved in one way or another.

The first group, entitled “Trump Campaign (in coordination to the extent permitted as an independent expenditure)” listed a number of senior campaign officials: Steve Bannon, Kellyanne Conway, Sam Clovis, Lt. Gen. Flynn and Lisa Nelson.

The largest group named a number of “independent groups / organizations / individuals / resources to be deployed.” My name appears on this list. At the time, I didn’t recognize most of the others; however, several made headlines in the weeks immediately prior to the election.

My perception then was that the inclusion of Trump campaign officials on this document was not merely a name-dropping exercise. This document was about establishing a company to conduct opposition research on behalf of the campaign, but operating at a distance so as to avoid campaign reporting. Indeed, the document says as much in black and white.

The combination of Smith’s deep knowledge of the inner workings of the campaign, this document naming him in the “Trump campaign” group, and the multiple references to needing to avoid campaign reporting suggested to me that the group was formed with the blessing of the Trump campaign. In the Journal’s story this evening, several of the individuals named in the document denied any connection to Smith, and it’s certainly possible that he was a big name-dropper and never really represented anyone other than himself. If that’s the case, Smith talked a very good game.


I believe this is not behind a paywall.
Posted by TigerDoc
Texas
Member since Apr 2004
10321 posts
Posted on 7/1/17 at 2:47 pm to
quote:

My perception then was that the inclusion of Trump campaign officials on this document was not merely a name-dropping exercise. This document was about establishing a company to conduct opposition research on behalf of the campaign, but operating at a distance so as to avoid campaign reporting. Indeed, the document says as much in black and white.


That part above is awfully interesting as is Smith telling the journal he thought he'd been communicating with Russian hackers and had no compunction about obtaining the emails from whatever source he could, foreign or not.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
435758 posts
Posted on 7/1/17 at 2:54 pm to
quote:

“He said, ‘I’m talking to Michael Flynn about this—if you find anything, can you let me know?’” said Eric York, a computer-security expert from Atlanta who searched hacker forums on Mr. Smith’s behalf for people who might have access to the emails.

Emails written by Mr. Smith and one of his associates show that his small group considered Mr. Flynn and his consulting company, Flynn Intel Group, to be allies in their quest.

this seems to destroy the coordination narrative

if they're actively looking for these emails on "hacker forums", then they didn't have a direct connection to the alleged Russian hackers
Posted by TigerDoc
Texas
Member since Apr 2004
10321 posts
Posted on 7/1/17 at 3:04 pm to
Obtaining purloined emails already in possession of foreign hackers has been discussed as a likely violation (taking foreign "in kind" assistance in an election) of the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1974.

quote:

Federal campaign finance law prohibits a “foreign national” (such as the Russian government) from spending money to influence U.S. elections. And it also provides that if a political campaign “coordinates” with anyone outside the campaign who is spending money to influence the election, then the campaign would have to treat the outside money as in-kind contributions (which, from a foreign government, are illegal), and report them on federal disclosure forms.


This would be a bit like getting Al Capone on tax crimes instead of organized crime.
This post was edited on 7/1/17 at 3:11 pm
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
435758 posts
Posted on 7/1/17 at 3:06 pm to
quote:

Obtaining purloined emails already in possession of foreign hackers has been discussed as a likely violation (taking foreign "in kind" assistance in an election) of the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1974.

while possible, i'm just speaking of the "muh Russians" meme

the claim is that Russia and Trump coordinated on the hacking, with Flynn being the primary go-between

if Russia hacked Podesta and sat on it to where Flynn, et al had to go find it, then there is no coordination whatsoever

it's 2 separate events: (1) Russia hacking Podesta and (2) Trump's team acquiring that information

not quite the sexy narrative that's being promoted as of now
Posted by JawjaTigah
On the Bandwagon
Member since Sep 2003
22597 posts
Posted on 7/1/17 at 3:09 pm to
quote:

will end with one of Trump's surrogates cooperating with a Putin surrogate in some form or fashion.
Which will prove...what? That there really is nothing inside a nothingburger after all.
Posted by moneyg
Member since Jun 2006
57901 posts
Posted on 7/1/17 at 3:14 pm to
quote]Hawkeye95
[/quote]

So, Michael Flynn was so in bed with the Russians that he had to call upon an independent opposition researcher to try and get access to the emails?

I didn't read the entire article. How did the 81 year old attempt to gain access to the emails?
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
435758 posts
Posted on 7/1/17 at 3:20 pm to
quote:

If Putin gives anything of value to your campaign, that is illegal.

possibly

but there is a VAST chasm between "possible FEC violation" and "treason" as many on the left have claimed
Posted by TigerDoc
Texas
Member since Apr 2004
10321 posts
Posted on 7/1/17 at 3:26 pm to
There are many threads in this story and the Podesta hack and the search for missing Clinton emails are separate but issues. In any case It will be hard to prove cooperation between the Kremlin and Trump campaign because the Russians use cut-outs, semi-independent operators that give a layer of deniability. It's not always FSB/GRU that run these operations in Europe. Smith's LLC could easily have served the a similar function of non-accountability for the Trump campaign, though we obviously don't know that.
Posted by Blizzard of Chizz
Member since Apr 2012
19467 posts
Posted on 7/1/17 at 3:39 pm to
Don't forget that Flynn was trying to set up backchannel communications with the Russians after the election despite having colluded with the Russians during the election.
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