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Started By
Message
3
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:12 pm to monkeybutt
quote:
As opposed to you, of course.
I am. As a Mavs fan who had to theoretically go thru the Lakers most years for a title, I hated Kobe. Mavs first. When Lebron came into the league, he was my favorite non-Mav player to root for.
If I had any bias, it certainly wouldn't be towards Kobe. Don't have a dog in this race so why would I?
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:15 pm to AjaxFury
quote:
I'll spare you the entire list, but it's long. In the final 24 seconds of playoff games, Bryant has racked up almost as many air balls as makes, making just below 30 percent of game-tying or go-ahead shots. He hasn't hit such a shot in a playoff game, in fact, since 2008, including key misses in the closing moments against the Jazz and Magic in 2009, and the Thunder and Suns last spring. He made one of his four shots in the fourth quarter of Game 7 of last year's Finals. No matter how you define crunch time -- from the last five minutes of the fourth quarter or overtime to the last 24 seconds -- and no matter how you define production -- field goal percentage, offensive efficiency, David Berri's Wins Produced, the results tell the same story: Bryant is about as likely to hit the big shot as any player.
Kobe's clutch stats are highly overrated by emotional fans
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:16 pm to theducks
Article is from 2011.
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:16 pm to StrongBackWeakMind
Let me guess, those numbers heavily weigh steals & blocks? Enlighten me. How is the formula weighted to account for disciplined man to man defense with a great shot contest ?
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:21 pm to AjaxFury
Defensive Rating
Defensive Win Shares
If you have a counter-argument other than memory and awards, let's hear it.
Defensive Win Shares
If you have a counter-argument other than memory and awards, let's hear it.
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:21 pm to AjaxFury
quote:OK!
Let me guess, those numbers heavily weigh steals & blocks? Enlighten me.
quote:
DRtg -- Defensive Rating
An estimate of points allowed per 100 possessions
quote:Well to the extent that the defense scores fewer points because of it, it's subsumed within it. Of course, because man to man, on ball defense is only a portion of a defensive possession, if it even occurs in any given possession, then it's only a portion of the defensive rating.
How is the formula weighted to account for disciplined man to man defense with a great shot contest ?
This post was edited on 5/16/17 at 12:22 pm
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:22 pm to theducks
quote:
Dallas fans don't fall too far from the Boomshakala HOU tree after all.
ALL ABOUT YHAT EYE TEST!
Man, you really got me there....
I guess NBA coaches who had sleepless nights studying tape on how to stop Kobe knew less about defensive prowess than some statistician in an office encoding a computer program.
Gosh, they should just make the Moneyball guys the coaches, since they obviously know more about the game than the 29 coaches who voted Kobe 1st team all defense 9 times in a league wide conspiracy
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:25 pm to monkeybutt
quote:It's easier to ignore and deflect.
Why don't you respond to the multitude of posts on page 9 destroying your argument?
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:26 pm to AjaxFury
quote:Actually, yes. They only player an opponent AT MOST, 4 times a year. Not a lot of time to focus on one player's entire defensive season.
I guess NBA coaches who had sleepless nights studying tape on how to stop Kobe knew less about defensive prowess than some statistician in an office encoding a computer program.
quote:You do realize teams hire those statisticians, and at a increasing rate, right?
Gosh, they should just make the Moneyball guys the coaches, since they obviously know more about the game than the 29 coaches who voted Kobe 1st team all defense 9 times in a league wide conspiracy
And we aren't talking about coaching, we are talking data across hundreds of thousands of possessions per season across a league. Those are fundamentally different tasks.
This post was edited on 5/16/17 at 12:30 pm
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:26 pm to AjaxFury
quote:
Gosh, they should just make the Moneyball guys the coaches, since they obviously know more about the game than the 29 coaches who voted Kobe 1st team all defense 9 times in a league wide conspiracy
There's a "moneyball" GM in HOU that has been kicking Dallas' arse fwiw. Every team has a multiple analysis at the games tracking every shot and even some players will hire somebody to track their tendencies.
You got anything other than a popularity contest award?
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:27 pm to theducks
quote:
Let's talk about the teams they had too. For much of your Sample, LeBron had Larry Hughes, Eric Smow and Ilgauskias. Kobe was playing with MUCH more polished teams yet his defense is OBJECTIVELY rated worse.
Except you wanted to focus on the 2005-2006 Lakers in one of your arguments last page, when he played with the likes of Smush, Walton & Sasha. Ironic, isn't it?
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:30 pm to AjaxFury
I haven't seen one person get owned in a thread like this since a PJ guarantee thread
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:30 pm to Aggie Fishfinder
quote:
Doesn't surprise me. Dallas fans have been beat up by the Spurs worse than Rockets fans have.
Which incidentally were almost always amongst the most closely contested playoff matchup damn near every year they met.....which was almost yearly for a decade
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:30 pm to AjaxFury
Kobe had one bad team? What's your point? Kobe still played to his average on defense too.
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:31 pm to AjaxFury
quote:That 2005-2006 Lakers team who gave up 6 fewer points and a lower shooting percentage when Kobe was on the bench?
Except you wanted to focus on the 2005-2006 Lakers in one of your arguments last page, when he played with the likes of Smush, Walton & Sasha. Ironic, isn't it?
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:31 pm to tigerclaws15
He's avoiding the DRTG now like the plague
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:31 pm to AjaxFury
quote:
Except you wanted to focus on the 2005-2006 Lakers in one of your arguments last page, when he played with the likes of Smush, Walton & Sasha. Ironic, isn't it?
quote:
Kobe was first team all defense in 2005-2006, but here are the on-off statistics: Kobe on-off 2005-2006 Opponents had an EFG% of 49.0% when he was on the court, and 46.8% when he was off. They also scored 106.8 points per 100 possessions when he was on the court, and 100.4 when he was off. So they shot better and scored 6.4 more points when he was on the court.
You're helping his argument by pointing out how terrible Kobe's teammates were. How did they post better defensive numbers when Kobe was off the court?
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:33 pm to AjaxFury
quote:He is by every objective measure, so there's that.
The bold part is where you lose me. The part where you're inner fan boy comes out. The part where you cease being an impartial observer.
Posted on 5/16/17 at 12:34 pm to monkeybutt
quote:
Why don't you respond to the multitude of posts on page 9 destroying your argument?
I don't get paid to do this shite. To me, it's a casual discussion.
The hell am I getting blisters for trying to reply to an army of Lebron cultists?....it's like trying to reply to each individual tweet when you upset the "Bey-hive"
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