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re: Spinoff - re: Paying teachers to teach at bad schools........Soapbox #3
Posted on 3/19/17 at 9:14 am to 4cubbies
Posted on 3/19/17 at 9:14 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Correct. But often they don't even realize they have limited vocabularies. They aren't trying to fix a problem they aren't aware exists
No argument here
quote:i think that this is part right. Sure, it describes some mothers.
They are way behind by the time they are 3. It's not that the mothers don't care, they don't know they are doing anything wrong.
But let's be honest here. There are a crap ton of these mothers who didn't value school at all and now they have children.
Hell. Some of those 3 year Olds have mom's that are still in school (or should be) sucking arse themselves
Posted on 3/19/17 at 9:17 am to ShortyRob
I think until society shifts from blaming the mothers to trying to solve the problem, no progress can be made.
Overall people seem to just want to berate and punish the moms (because the sperm donors are often unknown or absent) instead of trying to really come up with realistic remedies.
Overall people seem to just want to berate and punish the moms (because the sperm donors are often unknown or absent) instead of trying to really come up with realistic remedies.
Posted on 3/19/17 at 9:19 am to 4cubbies
quote:
I think until society shifts from blaming the mothers to trying to solve the problem,
if the family/culture isn't the problem, what is?
quote:
Overall people seem to just want to berate and punish the moms (because the sperm donors are often unknown or absent) instead of trying to really come up with realistic remedies.
if we can't fix that culture, there are no realistic opportunities
i mean you could argue an extreme remedy like removal and orphanages, but that has its own pitfalls that i doubt would be a net positive
Posted on 3/19/17 at 9:23 am to 4cubbies
quote:That must stop. Every classroom should be on closed circuit. Any assault or unwanted physical contact with a teacher should result in suspension, probably expulsion, and exposure to criminal charge.
Kids can fight each other, throw desks and other objects, cuss out teachers and other students, hit teachers and there are really no consequences.
Posted on 3/19/17 at 9:24 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
if the family/culture isn't the problem, what is?
We have identified the problem. But blaming mom for having kids out of wedlock (after the government has incentivized this behavior) clearly doesn't work for changing the behavior.
quote:
i mean you could argue an extreme remedy like removal and orphanages, but that has its own pitfalls that i doubt would be a net positive
I think an overhaul of welfare rules could help. Don't punish people on assistance for working by eliminating all if their benefits even if they don't make enough money to compensate for those benefits.
Posted on 3/19/17 at 9:25 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Schools are basically ensuring a population of inmates by teaching them they can do whatever they want and not face consequences.
and a lot of this (both the behavior and inability to respond) is so the parents can keep getting "crazy checks"
Posted on 3/19/17 at 9:26 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
That must stop. Every classroom should be on closed circuit. Any assault or unwanted physical contact with a teacher should result in suspension, probably expulsion, and exposure to criminal charge.
We have a grant the stipulates we can't suspend students and keep the money. So the only kids who have been suspended since we got the grant are kids who brought guns to school.
Posted on 3/19/17 at 9:27 am to 4cubbies
quote:
But blaming mom for having kids out of wedlock (after the government has incentivized this behavior) clearly doesn't work for changing the behavior.
we can either attack the culture or remove the incentive (or both, i guess)
quote:
I think an overhaul of welfare rules could help. Don't punish people on assistance for working by eliminating all if their benefits even if they don't make enough money to compensate for those benefits.
a good trick would be to offer more benefits if they're employed (with a limited duration). that would probably trick enough into working without the welfare cliff being an immediate threat. due to the thought processes of the underclass, many would take this deal b/c they can only see immediate results and can't/don't use long-term strategy. by the time they realize what they've done and the benefits are about to end, they can't go back and will have to figure it out
Posted on 3/19/17 at 9:27 am to 4cubbies
Moms who apply for WIC should have to attend classes on basic things mothers should do
Posted on 3/19/17 at 9:29 am to NIH
quote:
Moms who apply for WIC should have to attend classes on basic things mothers should do
I think everyone who files a tax return should have to attend parenting classes. I see the need so glaringly. I would attend gladly if it meant the people who needed the classes most would have to attend.
People need to know WHY they shouldn't scream at their crying infants or cuss at their crying toddlers.
Posted on 3/19/17 at 9:31 am to NIH
quote:
basic things mothers should do
i would love to see this policy only to see the "racism" allegations for this
i don't want to see the allegations as much as the defense (of the pathologies)
it's going to be like the SUNO closure insanity all over again
Posted on 3/19/17 at 9:36 am to 4cubbies
quote:
People need to know WHY they shouldn't scream at their crying infants or cuss at their crying toddlers.
won't work b/c it's literally cultural and a result of cognitive limitations
and this applies as much to white trash as black trash. it's not a racial comment
you cannot expect stupid people to (a) understand these concepts (b) remember to use these concepts (c) accept the data/explanation behind these concepts or (d) have the ability in the heat of the moment to analyze the situation and not go for the easiest path of response
add in the cultural pressures of valuing (irrational) aggression and it's just not going to change with a million lectures
these people cannot handle pressure situations b/c they don't have the mental ability to do so. they get frustrated and react with base-level responses. also, culturally this is reinforced/rewarded/celebrated so you're never going to break the habit
This post was edited on 3/19/17 at 9:37 am
Posted on 3/19/17 at 9:44 am to SlowFlowPro
I'm sure we'd have plenty of articles coming from 28 year old wealthy Northeastern women.
Posted on 3/19/17 at 9:45 am to SlowFlowPro
I read an article a while back that discussed a lot of that, hell maybe you're the one who linked it.
Basically, people's base level instincts of violence and what not keep them from ever amounting to anything
Basically, people's base level instincts of violence and what not keep them from ever amounting to anything
This post was edited on 3/19/17 at 9:45 am
Posted on 3/19/17 at 9:50 am to NIH
the education stuff boils my blood b/c of the good kids (from good families) who get fricked by the pieces of shite we've allowed to run these schools
i've posted for years that my political philosophy is that we should enact policies to reward good decision makers and punish bad ones. this education example is a big example of how we literally do the opposite. our educational system diverts an ungodly disproportionate amount of resources trying to bring the very bottom up from laughter to standard failure while hurting the middle and neglecting the top kids
what's even more terrible is the insidious and terrible way in which the argument is framed
a year or so ago i posted an article about "nuclear family privilege" and it was absurd, but a poignant example of this framing. there are behaviors that are known to be more optimal with better likely results and many progs accept this premise. but then they flip the argument around to demonize these more optimal behaviors as "privilege" so that they can demand governmental policy to punish the "privilege" and defend/aid the socially pathological behaviors they admit are sub-optimal
it's fricking infuriating
i've posted for years that my political philosophy is that we should enact policies to reward good decision makers and punish bad ones. this education example is a big example of how we literally do the opposite. our educational system diverts an ungodly disproportionate amount of resources trying to bring the very bottom up from laughter to standard failure while hurting the middle and neglecting the top kids
what's even more terrible is the insidious and terrible way in which the argument is framed
a year or so ago i posted an article about "nuclear family privilege" and it was absurd, but a poignant example of this framing. there are behaviors that are known to be more optimal with better likely results and many progs accept this premise. but then they flip the argument around to demonize these more optimal behaviors as "privilege" so that they can demand governmental policy to punish the "privilege" and defend/aid the socially pathological behaviors they admit are sub-optimal
it's fricking infuriating
Posted on 3/19/17 at 9:52 am to NIH
there are few things that are both so hilarious and irritating as a total fricking idiot being aggressive defending his/her retarded behaviors
that's an SFPism
that's an SFPism
Posted on 3/19/17 at 9:52 am to jmcwhrter
quote:
Maybe I'm shortsighted or misinformed, but wouldn't the "bad" school in Ensley then receive federal subsidies and such to "help then improve"... basically incentivizing that school to continue to do poorly or face reduced budget?
They would receive federal funding if they are a Title I school meaning that a high enough percentage of students are on free and reduced lunch.
They actually lose funding if they do not meet federal standards.
Posted on 3/19/17 at 9:57 am to SlowFlowPro
Makes you wonder what the nefarious goal is. The rank and file may believe in nuclear privilege but I think it's not far off that there are those in government who want the schools to be shite and for kids to not make it out of poverty
Posted on 3/19/17 at 10:01 am to NIH
i think the rank and file truly are empathetic and feel guilty for their success
it's the "you didn't built that" mantra on a macro scale
we don't want to be mean/critical of pathological behavior because those people are in a shittier place and it's like double fricking them. so in response, they lap up explanations as to why there are gaps so they don't have to criticize those in lesser situations (to not feel bad).
what they don't get is this is very elitist b/c they're implicitly admitting "i'm strong enough to be criticized and you poors are not". it's a savior complex that is REALLY judgmental and is everything they publicly stand against
it's the "you didn't built that" mantra on a macro scale
we don't want to be mean/critical of pathological behavior because those people are in a shittier place and it's like double fricking them. so in response, they lap up explanations as to why there are gaps so they don't have to criticize those in lesser situations (to not feel bad).
what they don't get is this is very elitist b/c they're implicitly admitting "i'm strong enough to be criticized and you poors are not". it's a savior complex that is REALLY judgmental and is everything they publicly stand against
Posted on 3/19/17 at 10:02 am to 4cubbies
quote:
I think until society shifts from blaming the mothers to trying to solve the problem, no progress can be made.
That's kind of the point of my post.
Sure, mothers and communities around these kids cause the primary break. But, there are no policies that can address that.
Hence, my discussion would prefer to focus upon problems we can fix. IE, the chain reaction that leads to it not only being a community full of kids under-prepared but a community full of kids under-prepared and taught largely by teachers that can't escape(not the best). Yes, I know that there are good teachers that endure it.......but, we know many choose not to.
And I would focus on the ensuring that the kids within that community that have the best chance for success aren't drug down by the other kids who destroy that possibility(ie, the kids you addressed that never have consequences)
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