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re: Beauty and the Beast thoughts and discussions
Posted on 3/21/17 at 9:40 am to MightyYat
Posted on 3/21/17 at 9:40 am to MightyYat
quote:
If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward then, brother, that person is a piece of shite. And I’d like to get as many of them out in the open as possible. You gotta get together and tell yourself stories that violate every law of the universe just to get through the goddamn day? What’s that say about your reality?
Without resorting to personal opinion and other subjective standards, please explain how you define "decent". This is the ultimate folly of atheism. As Dostoevsky famously pointed out, if there is no God then everything is permissible. After all, if right and wrong become a matter of personal and social opinions, nothing is ever objectively wrong.
Posted on 3/21/17 at 11:33 am to AUveritas
quote:
Without resorting to personal opinion and other subjective standards, please explain how you define "decent". This is the ultimate folly of atheism. As Dostoevsky famously pointed out, if there is no God then everything is permissible. After all, if right and wrong become a matter of personal and social opinions, nothing is ever objectively wrong.
Right and wrong are a matter of social opinions. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that slavery was considered acceptable and normal. As was lynching, burning people at the stake, and gladiator fights to the death.
Pretty much every atheist I know is a very good person who actually do far more to help others than most of the Christians I know. The atheist I know help others without questions or stipulations. The Christians I know that actually help others who not help "certain kinds of people". Generally people who are exactly like them.
An atheist does a good deed because he feels morally obligated to do so. A Christian does a good deed expecting g to be rewarded. Who is really the better person?
Posted on 3/21/17 at 11:53 am to AUveritas
quote:
Without resorting to personal opinion and other subjective standards, please explain how you define "decent". This is the ultimate folly of atheism. As Dostoevsky famously pointed out, if there is no God then everything is permissible. After all, if right and wrong become a matter of personal and social opinions, nothing is ever objectively wrong.
Sam Harris wrote an entire book about this very premise and argues why there is an active objective morality written in human beings and that God is not needed for it. The book is titled "The Moral Landscape: How Science Can Determine Human Values". It's a very good read and I recommend it highly.
Here's the synopsis:
quote:
Sam Harris’s first book, The End of Faith, ignited a worldwide debate about the validity of religion. In the aftermath, Harris discovered that most people—from religious fundamentalists to non-believing scientists—agree on one point: science has nothing to say on the subject of human values. Indeed, our failure to address questions of meaning and morality through science has now become the primary justification for religious faith.
In this highly controversial book, Sam Harris seeks to link morality to the rest of human knowledge. Defining morality in terms of human and animal well-being, Harris argues that science can do more than tell how we are; it can, in principle, tell us how we ought to be. In his view, moral relativism is simply false—and comes at an increasing cost to humanity. And the intrusions of religion into the sphere of human values can be finally repelled: for just as there is no such thing as Christian physics or Muslim algebra, there can be no Christian or Muslim morality. Using his expertise in philosophy and neuroscience, along with his experience on the front lines of our “culture wars,” Harris delivers a game-changing book about the future of science and about the real basis of human cooperation.
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