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re: Retired Green Beret officer: Mattis "left my men to die."
Posted on 12/2/16 at 11:33 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
Posted on 12/2/16 at 11:33 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
My old roommate retired as SOCOM CSM .... he was Group CSM as well. I'm going to call him this weekend and ask him about it - or shoot him a message on FB tonight before I crash.
He'll tell the truth about it from Group's perspective at least.
He'll tell the truth about it from Group's perspective at least.
Posted on 12/2/16 at 11:35 pm to Jim Rockford
This is comedic.
Truly.
Rah.
Truly.
Rah.
Posted on 12/2/16 at 11:36 pm to Jim Rockford
I think he would like to have that one back. People make mistakes sometimes on the battlefield. He may have had a reason for what he did.
Posted on 12/2/16 at 11:40 pm to scormi5
quote:
What a bunch of bullshite. They fail to mention that the incident that Mattis "failed" to support was a spec-ops, CIA operation. The Marines are quite removed from such missions, especially in 2001 (it's much more integrated now). They also don't mention what the Marines were in the middle of doing when this situation came up. I read a good book related to this incident, but more focused on the CIA's operations leading up to and during the invasion of Afghanistan. Those guys had their own support system and were quite outside the Marine's scope of responsibility.
Actually, they had both SOCOM air support out of Elgin, fixed wing and copters, and Blackwater support during that time frame.
That does not negate the responsibility of all services to respond to distress calls ... but as it's already been stated multiple times, we'll have to wait a see.
But if more SpecOps guys come forward then it'll be a problem for this Marine 4 star.
Posted on 12/2/16 at 11:44 pm to scrooster
He was probably confused as frick when he got the call for help. More than likely wasn't even aware of a SOCOM operation in the area. SOCOM has a history of keeping the other services out of the loop.
Posted on 12/2/16 at 11:46 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
New America Think Tank
quote:
In 2013, Anne-Marie Slaughter became President of New America, replacing Steve Coll.[7] Google's Executive Chairman, Eric Schmidt, is the chairman of the foundation's board of directors.
----
Anne-Marie Slaughter served as the Director of Policy Planning for the U.S. State Department from January 2009 until February 2011 under U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
Some links:
New Hillary Clinton Emails: Anne-Marie Slaughter, Sidney Blumenthal Urged Libya Military Action
‘Bravo!’ Email Appears To Show Clinton’s Friend Congratulating Her on Bombing of Libya
Clinton's Silicon Valley secrets: Google boss Eric Schmidt drew up campaign plan
Hacked emails show Eric Schmidt played a crucial role in Team Hillary’s election tech
Google’s Eric Schmidt Wore ‘Staff’ Badge at Hillary Clinton Election Night Party
This post was edited on 12/3/16 at 12:02 am
Posted on 12/2/16 at 11:53 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
Retired Lt. Col. Jason Amerine, in a Facebook post, said a delay by Mattis in sending rescue aircraft from a nearby base might have led to the deaths
quote:
“He was indecisive and betrayed his duty to us, leaving my men to die
Guy who wrote this article can't seem to make up his mind. Might and leaving aren't synonymous here.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:00 am to Jim Rockford
Amerine's reputation was largely built through the book The Only Thing Worth Dying For by Eric Blehm that talks about the mission to put Karzai in charge of Afghanistan. He also faced court-martial for speaking to a member of congress about the condition of a hostage negotiation in 2013, around the time Berghdahl trade happened.
Amerine has every right to his own opinion about the friendly fire incident in Afghanistan, but I can tell you that speculating as to whether Mattis' choppers are going to get the evac in time is pointless. Yeah, maybe Cody Prosser lives, maybe he doesn't. Amerine has no fricking way of knowing that. Nor does he have any way of knowing why Mattis' didn't send the MEDEVAC, nor was it Amerine's decision to make. I really hate the selfish way that Amerine is handling this issue. I think it's completely inappropriate and the opposite of being a professional. If Amerine had any respect for the commission he once held he would shut the frick up or come strong with some evidence in a forum more significant than a fricking facebook page. This whole thing screams "LOOK AT ME MY MEN DIED". Disgusting.
This is the Story of Jason Amerine's time on ODA 574, as told by Amerine: If you click through these, you can read every surviving member of that ODA's mission to escort Karzai to the throne
Interestingly, he was the ODA commander when a B-52 bomb dropped a 2000 pounder on the wrong coordinate and killed 3 members of his ODA. One could use the same logic that Amerine is using and blame Amerine for the death of his three teammates, but of course that would be completely unfair and baseless. One thing is for DAMN sure though, like it or not, Amerine is responsible for what his team did and did not do, and that includes casualties.
IN THIS VERY INTERVIEW Amerine claims that two died instantly, and that "nothing could be done for Prosser".
Well, Jason, which is it? Nothing could be done or Mattis' MEDEVAC could have saved his life?
The way Amerine talks about this mission makes my fricking skin crawl. "My men, My guerillas, My, Mine, Me, Myself, blah blah blah.
For those who aren't aware, ODA Team Leaders are Captains in the Army, and they serve a max of about 2 years at the tactical level before going on to fulfill many years of staff jobs and hopefully getting a Battalion Command one day. Most Captains don't run around Talking like they own shite, because in truth they don't. The popular nick-name for Captains used to be "summer help", if that gives any indication of how expendable they are to an ODA's operations.
This retarded statement by Amerine probably won't amount to anything. Maybe MAttis' screwed up, maybe he didn't. We have multiple decades of performance reviews and testimonies about Mattis' professionalism and integrity. So assuming that there was such a death on Mattis' record, it certainly wouldn't make him unsuitable for SECDEF.
Amerine has every right to his own opinion about the friendly fire incident in Afghanistan, but I can tell you that speculating as to whether Mattis' choppers are going to get the evac in time is pointless. Yeah, maybe Cody Prosser lives, maybe he doesn't. Amerine has no fricking way of knowing that. Nor does he have any way of knowing why Mattis' didn't send the MEDEVAC, nor was it Amerine's decision to make. I really hate the selfish way that Amerine is handling this issue. I think it's completely inappropriate and the opposite of being a professional. If Amerine had any respect for the commission he once held he would shut the frick up or come strong with some evidence in a forum more significant than a fricking facebook page. This whole thing screams "LOOK AT ME MY MEN DIED". Disgusting.
This is the Story of Jason Amerine's time on ODA 574, as told by Amerine: If you click through these, you can read every surviving member of that ODA's mission to escort Karzai to the throne
Interestingly, he was the ODA commander when a B-52 bomb dropped a 2000 pounder on the wrong coordinate and killed 3 members of his ODA. One could use the same logic that Amerine is using and blame Amerine for the death of his three teammates, but of course that would be completely unfair and baseless. One thing is for DAMN sure though, like it or not, Amerine is responsible for what his team did and did not do, and that includes casualties.
IN THIS VERY INTERVIEW Amerine claims that two died instantly, and that "nothing could be done for Prosser".
quote:
On the morning of December 5 ... the headquarters was directing air strikes against the ridgeline across from us. One of the guys messed up and brought in the bomb on us. So when the bomb hit them, the last count that I got, the latest number was I lost about 27 of my guerrillas. JD and Dan died instantly really. Cody Prosser, was a friend of mine that came in with the headquarters, was mortally wounded. He lived for a while, but there wasn't anything that could be done with him really.
Well, Jason, which is it? Nothing could be done or Mattis' MEDEVAC could have saved his life?
The way Amerine talks about this mission makes my fricking skin crawl. "My men, My guerillas, My, Mine, Me, Myself, blah blah blah.
For those who aren't aware, ODA Team Leaders are Captains in the Army, and they serve a max of about 2 years at the tactical level before going on to fulfill many years of staff jobs and hopefully getting a Battalion Command one day. Most Captains don't run around Talking like they own shite, because in truth they don't. The popular nick-name for Captains used to be "summer help", if that gives any indication of how expendable they are to an ODA's operations.
This retarded statement by Amerine probably won't amount to anything. Maybe MAttis' screwed up, maybe he didn't. We have multiple decades of performance reviews and testimonies about Mattis' professionalism and integrity. So assuming that there was such a death on Mattis' record, it certainly wouldn't make him unsuitable for SECDEF.
This post was edited on 12/3/16 at 12:04 am
Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:02 am to Homesick Tiger
quote:
Guy who wrote this article can't seem to make up his mind. Might and leaving aren't synonymous here.
Yeah, that loudmouth Amerine cant make up his mind either. This is what was initially said about Cody Prosser's death:
quote:
On the morning of December 5 ... the headquarters was directing air strikes against the ridgeline across from us. One of the guys messed up and brought in the bomb on us. So when the bomb hit them, the last count that I got, the latest number was I lost about 27 of my guerrillas. JD and Dan died instantly really. Cody Prosser, was a friend of mine that came in with the headquarters, was mortally wounded. He lived for a while, but there wasn't anything that could be done with him really.
Hrmmmmmm. Interesting. Seems like Amerine might have done some thinking since then...
Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:03 am to someoneBEE
There it is.
These scumbags can never cover their trails completely.
These scumbags can never cover their trails completely.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:06 am to Jim Rockford
I notice you left out some key passages
Sounds like he was trying to avoid what happened in "Lone Survivor"
If nobody knows for certain, then that's a pretty serious allegation to be throwing around. But its not the first time this guy has opened his mouth. He was investigated by the Army for comments he made to Congress about hostage negotiating
quote:
At the time, Mattis was reluctant to send aircraft without knowing the situation on the ground, “Well, if they’ve taken fire and you can’t tell me definitively how they got all scuffed up, I’m not going to send anything until you can assure me that the situation on the ground is secure,” Mattis is quoted as saying.
Sounds like he was trying to avoid what happened in "Lone Survivor"
quote:
“Cody died around the time we reached Rhino and I was told at least two Afghans died because of the delay but nobody knows for certain,” he wrote.
If nobody knows for certain, then that's a pretty serious allegation to be throwing around. But its not the first time this guy has opened his mouth. He was investigated by the Army for comments he made to Congress about hostage negotiating
Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:08 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
He was probably confused as frick when he got the call for help. More than likely wasn't even aware of a SOCOM operation in the area. SOCOM has a history of keeping the other services out of the loop.
I am pretty certain that he knew they were there, but I am also pretty certain that the details surrounding Cody Prosser's death have been changed SIGNIFICANTLY since the original interviews with Amerine.
I will tell you the rumors around 5th SFG (the unit to which these guys belonged): Prosser could have been saved, but the Marines didn't want to send a medevac. I don't know where that rumor started. I do know that it was prevalent for a time. I also know that Mattis' is a popular pick with that same unit today, and that nobody is walking by Cody Prosser's plaque saying "he would be here if it wasn't for that guy BG Mattis." That's because Cody Prosser died due to a terminal guidance error involving incorrect grid coordinates. It was not Mattis' fault, it wasn't the bombers fault, it wasn't Prosser's fault. It just happened and we learned a lot from it. Believe me, the issue has been discussed 10000000 times.
This post was edited on 12/3/16 at 12:11 am
Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:09 am to RobbBobb
quote:
“Cody died around the time we reached Rhino and I was told at least two Afghans died because of the delay but nobody knows for certain,” he wrote.
Yeah, Nobody knows, so shut the frick up Jason Amerine
If nobody knows for certain, then that's a pretty serious allegation to be throwing around. But its not the first time this guy has opened his mouth. He was investigated by the Army for comments he made to Congress about hostage negotiating
Classic spotlight Ranger shite. His career is full of this stuff.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:11 am to scrooster
quote:
My old roommate retired as SOCOM CSM .... he was Group CSM as well. I'm going to call him this weekend and ask him about it - or shoot him a message on FB tonight before I crash.
Was he in 5th SFG at the time?
Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:12 am to MrCarton
Love the perspective you always bring to things. I don't always agree with everything, but it is usually thought out and presented with some verifiable information. Very nice post.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:13 am to RockyMtnTigerWDE
quote:
Love the perspective you always bring to things. I don't always agree with everything, but it is usually thought out and presented with some verifiable information. Very nice post.
Well, that was my unit too, I worked one hallway down from ODA 574. I don't know all the details, and I have never pretended too. I know what people said about the incident, and I know what Amerine said in interviews.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:15 am to Jim Rockford
You have the best melts Jimmie.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:16 am to GeauxxxTigers23
I told you this incident was going to come up with the Mattis selection. Don't worry about it man, he will be confirmed.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:18 am to MrCarton
I think it needs to be remembered that this was in the earliest days on the War on Terror. We hadn't been in constant combat operations like we have been since. Things like CAS weren't an exact science. The Marines were not good at CASEVAC and still don't have dedicated CASEVAC units. It's just not something they trained on a lot. They're better now of course, just like everyone is better at CAS now. We also weren't as good at communicating then. The Marines were fighting their piece of the war and SOCOM was fighting theirs. The overlap was minimal at best. Combat Operation Center or TOC, whatever we're calling a command post these days, operations weren't near what they are today.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:22 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
think it needs to be remembered that this was in the earliest days on the War on Terror. We hadn't been in constant combat operations like we have been since. Things like CAS weren't an exact science.
Obviously I agree with this, but the guy who fricked up was an Air Force TAC-P or CCT (I don't recall) that was attached to the ODA because of the massive ATC requirements in that mission. The rumor is that he changed the AA batteries in the DAGGR he was using to derive his grids. What that does is remove any calculations you might have added to the device to derive and ENEMY location, and the screen refreshes with FRIENDLY location. I believe that is speculation as well, I don't know what really happened. I think the aircraft even said multiple times "Look I think that is REALLY close to your POS, can you send that back to me?" Then he read the grid back to the ATC, and sent the bomb.
The process for Calling for fire hasn't really changed all that much since the wars started, we just practiced more haha.
EDIT: Im sure you know how to use a DAGGR, this is just for everyone else's info I guess.
This post was edited on 12/3/16 at 12:23 am
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