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re: Was the end of the Roman Republic and start of the Empire good bad for them?
Posted on 11/18/16 at 9:11 pm to LoveThatMoney
Posted on 11/18/16 at 9:11 pm to LoveThatMoney
quote:
quote:This was not a frequent practice. Caesar most famously did it. Sulla and Marius laid the groundwork for it first. Caesar learned from them.
Agreed. And I think Pompey at least feinted at it or threatened it.
quote:
But after the defeat of Pyrrhus and certainly after the defeat of Carthage, the Republic was a shite show and desperately needed reform, to which its Senate families were extremely resistant.
And so they held on until it was impossible to save it and it, rightly, died
Yeah. The Senate and the really elitist old families that dominated it were pretty much assholes. But in a way you can't blame them. No group wants to give up power once they've acquired it and in their view they were Rome. But yeah, they did kind of limit the talent pool by their attitude plus they could never permanently tamp down the classes trying to move up into power.
2
Posted on 11/18/16 at 10:39 pm to Methuselah
Agreed. The degradation of a civilization is inevitable. Even Scipio Aemilianus, over a century before the actual fall of the Republic, wept for his country's eventual ruination after sacking Carthage, knowing that his actions against Rome's most bitter enemy presaged the very fate of his own people. But that realization doesn't keep the powerful from desperately clinging to their possessions and their power. Like all men, once a thing was in their grasp, whether earned, taken or given, they would not cede it willingly.
Posted on 11/18/16 at 11:07 pm to Methuselah
The Senate actually did not have as much power as everyone thinks. Many Senate decrees did not have the force of law whereas the People's Assembly did have more power and their decrees did have the force of law.
The problem was Marius and Cinna began taking more and more powers away from the Senate and giving them to the Assembly and Centuries. Then they took the Consul's imperium away from him which practically dared Sulla to march on Rome.
The real flaw in the Republic was the ability to criminalize the opposition. Caesar for example, did try to make peace with Pompey but was refused. He knew if he gave up his legions, he was going to be stripped of everything and probably proscribed. Proscription became a real threat in the last century. Giving up power meant one was at the mercy of his enemies, thus an incentive to fight more civil wars was created.
One reason I probably oppose prosecuting Hillary. She lost, she is done. Clinton and Nixon were impeached. For the last 15 years the party out of power has looked for ways to impeach the President. Its a slippery slope and one that doomed the Republic.
The problem was Marius and Cinna began taking more and more powers away from the Senate and giving them to the Assembly and Centuries. Then they took the Consul's imperium away from him which practically dared Sulla to march on Rome.
The real flaw in the Republic was the ability to criminalize the opposition. Caesar for example, did try to make peace with Pompey but was refused. He knew if he gave up his legions, he was going to be stripped of everything and probably proscribed. Proscription became a real threat in the last century. Giving up power meant one was at the mercy of his enemies, thus an incentive to fight more civil wars was created.
One reason I probably oppose prosecuting Hillary. She lost, she is done. Clinton and Nixon were impeached. For the last 15 years the party out of power has looked for ways to impeach the President. Its a slippery slope and one that doomed the Republic.
This post was edited on 11/19/16 at 5:46 am
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