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re: Scales tipped against college?
Posted on 7/24/16 at 4:20 pm to Walking the Earth
Posted on 7/24/16 at 4:20 pm to Walking the Earth
My brother is an electrician and has his certifications. He is constantly having new jobs. He makes way more money than he could have with a college degree. He has flat out said that he is glad he didn't just go to a university and actually learned a trade
Posted on 7/24/16 at 4:20 pm to Halftrack
Change plumbers with welders, and you've got it. Also, you need some type of degree to be an operator.
AP classes in high school are harder than most college classes. College has been gradually dumbed down to a 10th or 11th grade level. I know two people from HS that went to LSU, but were in remedial math classes. That's like 5th grade math.
Your freshman and sophomore years are basically high school extended. Nothing new is learned in 95% of programs during that time if you had a good foundation in high school.
AP classes in high school are harder than most college classes. College has been gradually dumbed down to a 10th or 11th grade level. I know two people from HS that went to LSU, but were in remedial math classes. That's like 5th grade math.
Your freshman and sophomore years are basically high school extended. Nothing new is learned in 95% of programs during that time if you had a good foundation in high school.
Posted on 7/24/16 at 4:25 pm to Hammertime
Your entire post is bullshite. AP classes mirror entry level college classes but cover the material over an entire year rather than a single college semester.
Any decent college or university is much more challenging than high school.
Any decent college or university is much more challenging than high school.
Posted on 7/24/16 at 4:26 pm to Fat and Happy
From a purely economic utilitarian viewpoint, your brother is likely correct. Learning a trade is a terrific way to maximize economic returns. However, there are life experiences he completely missed by not attending a university. It is a trade off that works for him.
Posted on 7/24/16 at 4:30 pm to Halftrack
Plant operators don't start out at 80K. More like 50-55K. Now, after a few years and certifications in different areas of the plant, sure.
Posted on 7/24/16 at 4:31 pm to Walking the Earth
A hard working and ambitious HS graduate can make very good money in trades. I have a friend who is an electrician who owns his company. He has 22 core guys employed right now but has so much work that they struggle to keep up. He is having a lot of trouble hiring quality people to keep up. He is at the point where he is willing to hire people with zero electrical experience as long as they are trainable and reliable. His last two hires lasted one week (never showed up after first week. My friend found out he was jailed) and the other guy lasted a month. He was an hour late every day due to drinking problem. These were guys with experience that he started at $24 an hour and were guaranteed at least 10 hours of OT at time and a half per week. He is now offering $20 an hour to anyone who is willing to learn the ropes. He has a 3rd year 24 year old who was a fry cook when he hired him. Kid showed a tremendous work ethic and proficiency to learn and is now making $30 an hour and leading a 3 man crew. With 10-15 hours of OT he is making $70-80k a year.
The trade jobs are there to make a good living for someone without a college degree. Just hard to find the people willing to do what it takes to take advantage of the opportunity.
The trade jobs are there to make a good living for someone without a college degree. Just hard to find the people willing to do what it takes to take advantage of the opportunity.
Posted on 7/24/16 at 4:32 pm to lynxcat
Experiences in college involving coeds?
Posted on 7/24/16 at 4:36 pm to Halftrack
How about discussing complex topics with other intelligent people? Some of the best learning in college happens outside of class hanging around in the dorms or over dinner in the cafe. Meeting people from different background and being exposed to new and different thinking.
Of course, the social side of going to parties and making new friends serves well throughout life as well.
Of course, the social side of going to parties and making new friends serves well throughout life as well.
Posted on 7/24/16 at 4:39 pm to Halftrack
When the job you get doesn't cover the expense of your degree in your first year of working.
Bring back the technical skills in high school. My mom graduated high school and was a draftsman. We will always need blue collar workers.
Bring back the technical skills in high school. My mom graduated high school and was a draftsman. We will always need blue collar workers.
Posted on 7/24/16 at 4:40 pm to liz18lsu
in the first year?!
How ridiculous of a statement.
How ridiculous of a statement.
Posted on 7/24/16 at 4:41 pm to lynxcat
If you had said ten years to repay loan then maybe a discussion could start... But one year is silliness.
Posted on 7/24/16 at 4:43 pm to lynxcat
Yes, ole boy. I'm with Lynxcat. We all need to go to college. We don't need to know plumbing or shop or any of that. That's what Mexicans are for!
Posted on 7/24/16 at 4:48 pm to Halftrack
I never said that everyone needs to go to college. The question posed in the OP was when the "scales tip against college" and I've provided reasoning for college being worth it economically and/or socially depending on the person.
I am a huge proponent of trade school and think it needs to be embedded into high school as well. Everyone should not go to college but that is a different question than the OP raised.
I am a huge proponent of trade school and think it needs to be embedded into high school as well. Everyone should not go to college but that is a different question than the OP raised.
This post was edited on 7/24/16 at 4:50 pm
Posted on 7/24/16 at 4:55 pm to lynxcat
quote:
don't believe the two camps are completely separate, however, most on this board are likely to focus on the economic utility side whilst forgetting about the social utility component of the equation.
Fully, 100% agree. Most people treat college a paper to get a job and make money. While that is very important, the secondary and less tangible learnings you receive are invaluable.
A few examples:
-intellectual discussions with other people in different majors. Their view points
- humanities subjects which are enlightening (philosophy, art history, etc)
- politics
- social norms and handling yourself in college
I could have done my engineering degree at GA tech but elected to do it at UVA to broaden my study. I wanted a well rounded approach. And it was worth every penny
Posted on 7/24/16 at 4:59 pm to TulaneUVA
So you are against online study like Univ of Phoenix?
This post was edited on 7/24/16 at 5:00 pm
Posted on 7/24/16 at 5:01 pm to Halftrack
Yes, for profit universities are terrible and largely scams.
Posted on 7/24/16 at 5:04 pm to lynxcat
Were you in AP classes?
Maybe you're thinking about upper level classes, because the lower level material was on par with what I took in HS
Maybe you're thinking about upper level classes, because the lower level material was on par with what I took in HS
Posted on 7/24/16 at 5:04 pm to Halftrack
Most undergraduate degrees except nursing and engineering are generally worthless. Pretty much either have to major in nursing/engineering or go to grad school, or get bachelors and make 35k a year
Posted on 7/24/16 at 5:14 pm to Lionnation1993
quote:
make 35k a year
And drive a 3 series BMW (chariot of the $30K a year millionaire).
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