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Started By
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The appeal of re-signing Ryno
Posted on 6/30/16 at 11:25 am
Posted on 6/30/16 at 11:25 am
Just wanna leave it here so if it happens, people at least understand the logic before they bash it
Let's say the team misses out on their top FA targets and have the ability to get Harkless or Crabbe for around 18 mil or Ryno for 18 mil. If you sign Harkless, let's say, you effectively have zero cap space left; Just the room exception.But if you re-sign Ryno for the same exact price, you have about 9 mil in cap space plus the room. So, you can go get a solid backup or bring back Frazier and trade for Morrow, re-sign Ennis with the room, etc
It gives you so many more options. You might disagree, but at least understand their logic. I say 20-30 percent chance this happens
Let's say the team misses out on their top FA targets and have the ability to get Harkless or Crabbe for around 18 mil or Ryno for 18 mil. If you sign Harkless, let's say, you effectively have zero cap space left; Just the room exception.But if you re-sign Ryno for the same exact price, you have about 9 mil in cap space plus the room. So, you can go get a solid backup or bring back Frazier and trade for Morrow, re-sign Ennis with the room, etc
It gives you so many more options. You might disagree, but at least understand their logic. I say 20-30 percent chance this happens
5
Posted on 6/30/16 at 11:29 am to Crewz
and how does a sign and trade affect life?
Posted on 6/30/16 at 11:29 am to Crewz
I get the math, but from a roster construction perspective Ryno only makes sense if you can secure the perimeter better. If $9 million doesn't get you a wing defender you're basically running it all back for the 3rd year in a row hoping that you're finally healthy. Hope is not a plan.
Posted on 6/30/16 at 11:31 am to Chad504boy
Theoretically, if they do it over the cap, it will give them a monster trade exception they would have a year to use. But that it is unlikely and it is pointless for any team to give up real assets for him in a sign and trade
Posted on 6/30/16 at 11:34 am to TigerinATL
Would Harkless as our only addition give you any reason to think this team would be better? I'd rather, say Ryno, Frazier, Ennis, Morrow, and Brandon Rush than Just Harkless and Frazier, wouldn't you?
Posted on 6/30/16 at 11:35 am to Crewz
I will say I don't love the idea of bringing ryno back at that number but if harkless is going to get the same money then I would definitely sign ryno back
Posted on 6/30/16 at 11:39 am to Crewz
quote:But a fake 2nd rounder in a S&T accomplishes the TPE (and could get Ryno a bigger contract). Would that have some value at the trade deadline? Otherwise, I understand the logic and see the value in re-signing him if we miss out on our targets.
Theoretically, if they do it over the cap, it will give them a monster trade exception they would have a year to use. But that it is unlikely and it is pointless for any team to give up real assets for him in a sign and trade
Posted on 6/30/16 at 11:43 am to Crewz
Because of the money he takes up I don't think any plan that involves bringing back Ryno improves the talent base much. It may end up being the best move available to you, but I'm not going to think it was a great Free Agency for the Pels. Maybe if the team can finally have some injury luck it will work out, but I'm not counting on that.
Posted on 6/30/16 at 11:43 am to BSB1988
quote:
I will say I don't love the idea of bringing ryno back at that number but if harkless is going to get the same money then I would definitely sign ryno back
I agree, although i don't really like the idea of bringing Ryno back. I want to start over.
Harkless is being pumped b/c he shot well from 3 in the playoffs. I don't know how he shot 38% in his second year, but his other 3 years in the league he's been an awful shooter.
If he was a decent 3 point shooter, then he probably would be worth the ridiculous number they are throwing out. He's also a terrible free throw shooter. under 60% in his 4 years.
Posted on 6/30/16 at 11:44 am to TigerinATL
They can only choose the things that are available to them though. I'm saying if your two best options are a below avg SF and just the room exception or Ryno, 9 mil, and the room, you choose door 2 every time, no?
Posted on 6/30/16 at 11:47 am to NOSHAU
quote:
Would that have some value at the trade deadline?
I think it'd have to be a very specific situation where a team over paid what ends up being a terrible fit for them that would end up being a good fit for us. Kind of like how Houston got Ariza the first time to be a #1 option which he failed miserably at and then we got him to be a #3 option and he wasn't terrible. But if someone pays say Bazemore $20 million to play a bigger role than he's capable of, do we want to take him off their hands if he's making $20?
Posted on 6/30/16 at 11:50 am to Crewz
For the TL;DR crowd-- What would be more appealing to you, Harkless at 16-18 mil or Ryno at 12? If you answered Ryno, then you might be able to understand why the Pels are considering bringing him back
Posted on 6/30/16 at 11:55 am to Crewz
quote:Agree. Then we at least have an asset that we may be able to unload later if we choose.
They can only choose the things that are available to them though. I'm saying if your two best options are a below avg SF and just the room exception or Ryno, 9 mil, and the room, you choose door 2 every time, no?
Posted on 6/30/16 at 11:57 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
I don't know how he shot 38% in his second year, but his other 3 years in the league he's been an awful shooter.
If he was a decent 3 point shooter, then he probably would be worth the ridiculous number they are throwing out. He's also a terrible free throw shooter. under 60% in his 4 years
Harkless is same age as Buddy Hield. Buddy's shot really developed in year 4 in college. Harkless really looked good 2nd half of last year and in the playoffs. Are we at the beginning of his growth arch?
Posted on 6/30/16 at 12:02 pm to Toula
People need to dig into these guys a little deeper. What was his 3pt percentage on fairly contested 3's vs WIDE OPEN looks. Are guys like him and Aminu actually becoming better shooters or are teams leaving them wide open a ton and they occasionally burn them?
Posted on 6/30/16 at 12:03 pm to Crewz
quote:
Let's say the team misses out on their top FA targets and have the ability to get Harkless or Crabbe for around 18 mil or Ryno for 18 mil. If you sign Harkless, let's say, you effectively have zero cap space left; Just the room exception.But if you re-sign Ryno for the same exact price, you have about 9 mil in cap space plus the room. So, you can go get a solid backup or bring back Frazier and trade for Morrow, re-sign Ennis with the room, etc
This is the logic that gives you Asik's contract. When I argued for Bioymbo last off season as 90% of asik at 30% of the cost many said that Asik was much better and if we didn't sign Asik then no Gee and DC. We all know how that turned out: 4 years guaranteed plus a little. Dell backed himself into a corner and Asik's agent exploited that.
You don't sign a bad contract and kill future flexibility just so you can have better end of bench options. $9M doesn't get you shite in this free agency. $9M in cap space is not worth taking on the risk of an $18-20M Ryno contract for me.
Posted on 6/30/16 at 12:11 pm to Crewz
quote:
They can only choose the things that are available to them though
Assuming he's not much over $16 million, choosing Ryno and some other reasonably priced assets is the right call, but the stated purpose of this thread is to prepare us for potential disappointment and yes, most would find what you are saying may happen to be disappointing. For the 3rd year in a row we would not have adequately addressed the SF position unless Ennis blows up.
Posted on 6/30/16 at 12:13 pm to Crewz
quote:
They can only choose the things that are available to them though. I'm saying if your two best options are a below avg SF and just the room exception or Ryno, 9 mil, and the room, you choose door 2 every time, no?
This is a false construct though. Harkless and Ryno at $18M are not the only two options. You can sign a cheaper PF or SF option and have more space than $9M without locking up huge money down the line just to run it back.
Posted on 6/30/16 at 12:16 pm to TigerinATL
The point of the thread is to give logic to a move that the stupid people would just come in crying about the second it's done. It's not by any means the ideal offseason but there is a very very good possiblity that Dell only has a bunch of bad possibilities to choose between and there is logic in saying this might be the best of all the bad options. But I know what will happen- people will compare the actual offseason with things they wanted that weren't real options for Dell
Because most people are dumb
Because most people are dumb
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