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Message
Drew Brees 'all for' Ben Roethlisberger's two-point philosophy
Posted on 6/15/16 at 12:41 pm
Posted on 6/15/16 at 12:41 pm
Mike Triplett
ESPN Staff Writer 1:11PM ET
espn.com
Posted by Michael David Smith on June 15, 2016, 1:30 PM EDT NBC Sports
NBC Sports
ESPN Staff Writer 1:11PM ET
espn.com
quote:
Drew Brees said he is "all for" Ben Roethlisberger's idea to go for two points after every touchdown.
"Personally, I feel like if we went for two that we could make it more than 50 percent of the time," the New Orleans Saints quarterback told The Dan Patrick Show. "And I think fourth down, depending on where you are on the field, I feel like if you’re in a manageable situation, we could convert most fourth downs. So I'm all for it."
But Brees said he doesn't think he needs to suggest the idea to coach Sean Payton.
"I don’t need to tell Coach Payton to be more aggressive," Brees said with a laugh. "I think we've got that part of it taken care of."
Brees' answer isn't too surprising, considering both the New Orleans Saints and the Pittsburgh Steelers routinely field one of the NFL's most prolific offenses. Last year, they ranked second and third, respectively, in yardage.
Patrick mentioned the Golden State Warriors when he first asked Brees if he likes Roethlisberger's idea.
"Bring the 'Splash Brother' philosophy to the NFL, huh?" Brees said. "You know, I think there’s probably something to be said for it. Especially now that they’ve moved the extra point back...
"I think there’s some people that would argue that you would go for it on fourth down a majority of the time as well. I think it's depending upon the offense that you're in and the guys that you have. But certainly the weapons that the Steelers have maybe they should be going for it on fourth down and going for two every time. I think everybody would love to see that."
Posted by Michael David Smith on June 15, 2016, 1:30 PM EDT NBC Sports
NBC Sports
quote:
Saints quarterback Drew Brees wants to spend more time on the field this season, and see his punter and kicker on the field less.
Asked today on the Dan Patrick Show if he believes the Saints should go for it on fourth down more often, and go for two after most touchdowns, Brees says he absolutely thinks they should.
“Personally, I feel like if we went for two, we could make it more than 50 percent of the time, and I think fourth down, depending on where you are on the field, if you’re in a manageable situation we could convert most fourth downs. So I’m all for it,” Brees said.
Most statisticians who have studied the matter agree with Brees on fourth downs: The analytics people say it’s clear that NFL coaches are too quick to punt and too hesitant to go for it.
As for going for two, last season across the league extra points were good 94.2 percent of the time, while two-point conversions were good 47.9 percent of the time. That means two-point conversions were actually a slightly better bet than extra points.
So the math is in favor of Brees, and of Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, who said yesterday that he wants to go for two after every touchdown. And most fans surely agree, as it’s always more fun to see teams go for it on fourth down or go for two than kick. The only question is whether any NFL coach will buy into that strategy. So far, NFL coaches have proven themselves to be more cautious than fans and quarterbacks might hope.
This post was edited on 6/15/16 at 1:59 pm
Posted on 6/15/16 at 12:43 pm to Mrwhodat
Especially when you have an ace up your sleeve like the reverse to Josh Hill.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 12:47 pm to Rickety Cricket
quote:
Especially when you have an ace up your sleeve like the reverse to Josh Hill.
It's definitely never not not a good play call.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 1:02 pm to Rickety Cricket
quote:
Especially when you have an ace up your sleeve like the reverse to Josh Hill.
Lance Moore was our two point conversion specialist for our Super Bowl and a red zone target. Drew may want to rethink it. No more Lance Moore.
Lance Moore two point conversion Super Bowl
This post was edited on 6/15/16 at 1:11 pm
Posted on 6/15/16 at 1:10 pm to Mrwhodat
What are the saints stats on 2 pt conversions past lets say 5 years?
And i'd go further and say that here and there gimmick 2 pt plays that we've had success with over past few years is still not a guarantee for sustained success with a greater sample size.
And i'd go further and say that here and there gimmick 2 pt plays that we've had success with over past few years is still not a guarantee for sustained success with a greater sample size.
This post was edited on 6/15/16 at 1:10 pm
Posted on 6/15/16 at 1:20 pm to Chad504boy
quote:
What are the saints stats on 2 pt conversions past lets say 5 years?
And i'd go further and say that here and there gimmick 2 pt plays that we've had success with over past few years is still not a guarantee for sustained success with a greater sample size.
quote:
Over the years, the average success rate of two point conversions in the NFL has been around 50% (compared to a near 100% conversion on the single extra point).
Team Two Point Conversion Statistics: 2015 NFL Season
Sporting Charts
quote:
Two Point Conversion Success Rate
Team Two Point Attempts Two Points Made Two Point Percentage
1 Pittsburgh Steelers 11 8 72.7%
2 Green Bay Packers 6 4 66.7%
3 Tennessee Titans 5 3 60%
4 Buffalo Bills 5 2 40%
5 Chicago Bears 5 2 40%
6 San Diego Chargers 3 2 66.7%
7 Kansas City Chiefs 4 2 50%
8 Houston Texans 3 2 66.7%
9 Washington Redskins 3 2 66.7%
10 Cleveland Browns 4 2 50%
11 Miami Dolphins 3 2 66.7%
12 Cincinnati Bengals 1 1 100%
13 Dallas Cowboys 1 1 100%
14 Jacksonville Jaguars 5 1 20%
15 Seattle Seahawks 5 1 20%
16 Oakland Raiders 3 1 33.3%
17 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 3 1 33.3%
18 Indianapolis Colts 2 1 50%
19 San Francisco 49ers 2 1 50%
20 New Orleans Saints 4 1 25%
21 Atlanta Falcons 3 1 33.3%
22 St. Louis Rams 2 1 50%
23 Minnesota Vikings 1 1 100%
24 Baltimore Ravens 4 1 25%
25 New York Giants 2 1 50%
26 Carolina Panthers 0 0 0%
27 Arizona Cardinals 0 0 0%
28 Denver Broncos 1 0 0%
29 New York Jets 0 0 0%
30 Philadelphia Eagles 0 0 0%
31 New England Patriots 0 0 0%
32 Detroit Lions 3 0 0%
This post was edited on 6/15/16 at 2:19 pm
Posted on 6/15/16 at 1:46 pm to Mrwhodat
Going for 2 if you're only gonna complete it 50% is moronic, you need to complete it above that to make it worth it. Otherwise, you will still be getting the same outcome as taking an extra point with 50% more of the risk. If you could complete it around 60-65% then it is worth it. This debate is stupid, now going for it on 4th down is something different.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 1:55 pm to fightingtigers98
Had they left the extra point spot where it was and kickers were making 99% on extra points, I would agree. However, with the extra point being further back, if you are 50/50 you may actually come out on top.
With that said, another poster showed the Saints were 25%. So, they have to drastically improve for that to become a reality.
In regards to going for it on 4th (outside of end of half/game); if it's 4th and less than 5 and you are between the 30s I would not be upset if they would start taking that shot. Of course, if they know this; then it also changes the play call on 3rd and you may be bale to have 4th be more manageable bc you still have one more down.
With that said, another poster showed the Saints were 25%. So, they have to drastically improve for that to become a reality.
In regards to going for it on 4th (outside of end of half/game); if it's 4th and less than 5 and you are between the 30s I would not be upset if they would start taking that shot. Of course, if they know this; then it also changes the play call on 3rd and you may be bale to have 4th be more manageable bc you still have one more down.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 2:05 pm to Weekend Warrior79
quote:
Had they left the extra point spot where it was and kickers were making 99% on extra points, I would agree. However, with the extra point being further back, if you are 50/50 you may actually come out on top.
With that said, another poster showed the Saints were 25%. So, they have to drastically improve for that to become a reality.
In regards to going for it on 4th (outside of end of half/game); if it's 4th and less than 5 and you are between the 30s I would not be upset if they would start taking that shot. Of course, if they know this; then it also changes the play call on 3rd and you may be bale to have 4th be more manageable bc you still have one more down.
As per NBC Sports:
quote:
As for going for two, last season across the league extra points were good 94.2 percent of the time, while two-point conversions were good 47.9 percent of the time. That means two-point conversions were actually a slightly better bet than extra points.
NBC Sports
Posted on 6/15/16 at 2:13 pm to Mrwhodat
so 25% isn't very good right.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 2:16 pm to Chad504boy
quote:
so 25% isn't very good right.
No Lance, no two point conversion dance.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 2:32 pm to Mrwhodat
I mean, with the rules in place today that make it almost impossible for the defense to make a god play without a penalty (except for offsides/encroachment all come with an automatic first down), these offenses should NEVER punt unless it's 4th and long deep in their own territory.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 2:38 pm to Mrwhodat
The four teams that made the conference championships only went for 2 1 time combined. Just thought that was interesting.
26 Carolina Panthers 0 0 0%
27 Arizona Cardinals 0 0 0%
28 Denver Broncos 1 0 0%
31 New England Patriots 0 0 0%
26 Carolina Panthers 0 0 0%
27 Arizona Cardinals 0 0 0%
28 Denver Broncos 1 0 0%
31 New England Patriots 0 0 0%
Posted on 6/15/16 at 2:46 pm to PokerChamp21
I think if you have a good QB and if you practiced 2-pt conversions significantly to make it a fundamental part of your offense, then it's something to talk about.
However, we've sucked balls at 2-pt conversions as of late.
However, we've sucked balls at 2-pt conversions as of late.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 3:05 pm to Chad504boy
quote:
still not a guarantee for sustained success with a greater sample size.
It won't be a "guaranteed success". It just needs to be more productive than going for the extra point every time. To be worth it statistically going for two point conversations only needs to be successful 47% of the time.
ETA: I found a link that shows the Saints are 4 of 12 on two point conversations over the past seven seasons. Granted, that is not a great percentage but I would argue that this sample size is too low. Twelve attempts over seven seasons isn't enough to determine much. We generally went for two point conversions because we were down huge, not playing well and resorting to desperation tactics.
However, if we incorporated this into our everyday game planning, I'm sure an offense like ours could convert at least 47% of the time.
This post was edited on 6/15/16 at 3:14 pm
Posted on 6/15/16 at 3:07 pm to ClientNumber9
ok, and i see a 25% statistic above. even if we averaged 50% recently, that doesn't guarantee staying there with a much greater/different sized sample is my point.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 3:16 pm to ClientNumber9
yeah, i kind of thought we haven't been overly good at 2 pts. drew should shutup bc he's got to know how poor we've done at them. Sure its easy to say well if we make % amount of them, its smart to do so but without the history to back it up, its impossible to move forward with that gameplan.
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