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Started By
Message
re: Fighting a traffic ticket in Houston
Posted on 3/23/16 at 2:37 pm to studentforlife
Posted on 3/23/16 at 2:37 pm to studentforlife
quote:
I turned left onto Brazos from Elgin when I didn't see the "NO TURNS" sign
quote:You didn't see it but you know the dimensions?
sign underneath the traffic light that is roughly 30x12.
1
Posted on 3/23/16 at 2:41 pm to studentforlife
So it's your argument that a sign is invalid if it's not the exact size? It's a decent argument but if the sign is still visible I could see a judge still ruling against you. Those size guidelines are likely regulatory and are not meant to invalidate any visible sign solely for size.
Also, in my experience Houston is a bitch for tickets. Totally worse than Louisiana.
Also, in my experience Houston is a bitch for tickets. Totally worse than Louisiana.
Posted on 3/23/16 at 2:45 pm to htownjeep
quote:
You didn't see it but you know the dimensions?
I went back and looked and took a picture.
Posted on 3/23/16 at 2:49 pm to biglego
quote:
So it's your argument that a sign is invalid if it's not the exact size?
quote:
Standard:
Except as provided in Paragraphs 4 and 5, the minimum sizes for regulatory signs facing traffic on multi-lane conventional roads shall be as shown in the Multi-lane column of Table 2B-1.
It is not that it isn't the exact size, but rather smaller than the minimum size.
Posted on 3/23/16 at 3:00 pm to studentforlife
I get that. And it's a worthy argument. But look a little deeper in the code there, and double check the traffic laws. There may very be something that says a sign shall not be invalidated solely Bc of size if it is still visible.
Posted on 3/23/16 at 3:05 pm to studentforlife
The prosecutor told me when I got there that the cop rarely showed up for court
Posted on 3/23/16 at 3:09 pm to biglego
quote:
I get that. And it's a worthy argument. But look a little deeper in the code there, and double check the traffic laws. There may very be something that says a sign shall not be invalidated solely Bc of size if it is still visible.
Noted. Only thing I've found is this:
quote:
Standard:
The sign dimensions prescribed in the sign size tables in the various Parts and Chapters in this Manual and in the “Standard Highway Sign Designs for Texas” book (see Section 1A.11) shall be used unless engineering judgment determines that other sizes are appropriate. Except as provided in Paragraph 3, where engineering judgment determines that sizes smaller than the prescribed dimensions are appropriate for use, the sign dimensions shall not be less than the minimum dimensions specified in this Manual. The sizes shown in the Minimum columns that are smaller than the sizes shown in the Conventional Road columns in the various sign size tables in this Manual shall only be used on low-speed roadways, alleys, and private roads open to public travel where the reduced legend size would be adequate for the regulation or warning or where physical conditions preclude the use of larger sizes.
Hard to imagine them having documented engineering judgement though.
Posted on 3/23/16 at 3:32 pm to studentforlife
Go to court, cite all this, and see if the prosecutor brings in a city engineer. He won't and maybe you'll win. Let us know how it goes.
Posted on 3/23/16 at 3:45 pm to studentforlife
I just had Houston Traffic court jury duty last week. didn't get picked, but when they brought us in to ask the questions I figured the guy was guilty already.
Posted on 3/23/16 at 3:51 pm to Hermit Crab
quote:
I just had Houston Traffic court jury duty last week. didn't get picked, but when they brought us in to ask the questions I figured the guy was guilty already.
The other option is a trial by judge rather than jury. Not sure if that will be better but it would probably be faster.
Posted on 3/23/16 at 3:54 pm to studentforlife
quote:Of which sign? There's another sign at that intersection. A smaller one hanging under the traffic light, which I think is the one you are talking about.
I went back and looked and took a picture.
quote:
I didn't see the "NO TURNS" sign underneath the traffic light
And a much bigger one on a pole on the right hand corner.
Posted on 3/23/16 at 3:58 pm to studentforlife
quote:
The NO TURNS sign is labeled R3-3 in the manual.
quote:
Movement Prohibition (R3-1,2,3,4,18,27) - Conventional Road **Multi-Lane: 36x36
** State Maintained conventional roadways should use Multi-Lane as standard.
Notes: 1. Larger signs may be used when appropriate.
--------------------
Maybe they are just old?
=======================================
are there any exceptions to the rules? did you look for them?
Posted on 3/23/16 at 4:04 pm to htownjeep
quote:
And a much bigger one on a pole on the right hand corner.
quote:
If turn prohibition signs are installed in conjunction with traffic control signals:
...
C. A NO TURNS sign should be placed adjacent to a signal face viewed by all road users on that approach, or two signs should be used.
I probably need to go back and see if there are 2 signs that are valid size and in the appropriate positions.
Posted on 3/23/16 at 4:05 pm to studentforlife
quote:
I didn't see the "NO TURNS" sign underneath the traffic light that is roughly 30x12
Posted on 3/23/16 at 4:07 pm to studentforlife
quote:
roughly 30x12. The sign is significantly smaller than mandated by the Texas Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices, which states the minimum size is 36x36
quote:
Any idea if this would be enough to contest the ticket?
Posted on 3/23/16 at 4:07 pm to retired trucker
quote:
are there any exceptions to the rules? did you look for them?
I looked. The only exception I found was the "engineering judgement" I posted above.
Posted on 3/23/16 at 4:09 pm to htownjeep
the pole on the other side of the street has a sign too. 3 signs, but go fight the good fight my man!
Posted on 3/23/16 at 4:10 pm to Cdawg
quote:Me?
but go fight the good fight my man!
Posted on 3/23/16 at 4:11 pm to htownjeep
no, the OP. I just replied to you. 
Posted on 3/23/16 at 4:12 pm to Cdawg
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