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re: Mormons Taking Over Central Florida

Posted on 10/20/15 at 5:17 pm to
Posted by mtnhighTiger
Scottsdale, AZ
Member since Jan 2010
3947 posts
Posted on 10/20/15 at 5:17 pm to
If they do have all that property - they may take a page out of what they're doing here. Building walkable communities with shops, businesses, and parks/trails.

It's a cool community but it's not in a location I'd want to live in the valley.

Daybreak Community
Posted by mtnhighTiger
Scottsdale, AZ
Member since Jan 2010
3947 posts
Posted on 10/20/15 at 5:27 pm to
quote:

Confirmed, they're definitely up to something.


They're saving up for the day when you bring forth the apocalypse.

Most have an extensive cupboard in their basement.
Posted by bfniii
Member since Nov 2005
17840 posts
Posted on 10/20/15 at 5:35 pm to
quote:

But what about the other inconsistencies from the link?
infidels? not a good source of theological information or reasoning. i assure you there is nothing there that is either substantive or hasn't been answered a thousand times over. most of what you find there are vestiges of enlightenment or modernity reactions against the institutional church by secular thinkers or liberal christians. there has been plenty of time since then to demonstrate the inadequacies of those propositions. i tell you what, pick one interesting to you and i'll be glad to address it but, i honestly don't have time to pick apart every single mistaken idea those goofballs have.

quote:

There's all sorts of contradictions regarding Jesus's life and the earth's creation
the "contradictions" are only apparent to people who haven't studied the issues. that's not to say there aren't difficulties. do you have one in mind?

quote:

go to Leviticus and look at all the laws on how to treat your slaves or how usury is forbidden. I don't think any modern church espouses those any more.
more hermeneutics. this time ot law.

OT law is a reflection of Israel's history and not presented as a timeless universal code. it is part of a narrative that describes the development of the nation from captivity to canaan. it is tightly intertwined with the mosaic convenant and together, the two describe the spiritual attitude necessary for the nation to occupy canaan. they set a precedent for either blessing or punishment in regards to specifically fulfilling the charter of occupying the promised land. christians believe that the mosaic covenant/law have been superseded by a "new" covenant based on the word from God. thus, the OT law is no longer functional over believers.

you have a good attitude about all this. thanks for the stimulating conversation.
Posted by mtnhighTiger
Scottsdale, AZ
Member since Jan 2010
3947 posts
Posted on 10/20/15 at 5:36 pm to
quote:

Well, to be fair, the Mormon version off Hell isn't the same as most mainstream Christians believe. It's not fire and brimstone and after you die you will still have a chance to convert.


And to be even more fair...they've gotten into a lot of trouble for that baptism of the dead shite. They count the dead among their membership. And I can tell you for certain that a lot people are pissed about that. You have to request to make sure your non-mormon family members are not baptized after the fact.
Posted by LucasP
Member since Apr 2012
21618 posts
Posted on 10/20/15 at 5:44 pm to
quote:

nfidels? not a good source of theological information or reasoning.


Sorry I just picked the first one off the Google search to prove the point that they were easy to find. Gotta run and errands and I'll find a good one, I feel like a tossed you a softball here. Give me half an hour, I shouldn't be posting right now I'm driving.
Posted by 2smooth
Member since Jan 2015
2777 posts
Posted on 10/20/15 at 5:50 pm to
You are correct. Black people were allowed to join the church even during the earlier years of the LDS church.

All religions have pasts of racism and the LDS faith is no different, but unlike most other religions during that time they were allowed to be baptized and became members.

Posted by 2smooth
Member since Jan 2015
2777 posts
Posted on 10/20/15 at 5:57 pm to
quote:

They count the dead among their membership.


That is incorrect. Only living members are counted in current membership numbers. If the baptism for the dead was counted towards the membership, it would be way beyond the current 15+ million LDS today.
Posted by mtnhighTiger
Scottsdale, AZ
Member since Jan 2010
3947 posts
Posted on 10/20/15 at 6:08 pm to
quote:

As far as the vicarious work for the dead. This is also bad information you've received. We are not saving them by doing this work. We're providing those who have passed on with necessary ordinances (like baptism) that they cannot get on their own.


Excuse me sir, but this is the "PC" answer for the mainstream crowd. But for those of us who have performed these various works for the dead know otherwise. You may not be "saving" them but they're certainly padding the numbers. All without permission of the family. And they obviously can't get it on their own because THEY'RE DEAD!! Just like any other religion you have certain practices which cause people to scratch their heads and have the look of "WTF was that about?" look on their faces.

Shall I go into the inner-workings of the Temple? How everyone is required to wear white? Wear white robes and white hair coverings. How everyone is required to chant while holding hands and repeat various statements? Eden being in Illinois or Indiana somewhere. And there's more.

There is a lot of BS in the LDS religion which deviates far from other religions. The belief that Jesus, after resurrection, came to the Americas to teach and pass on the word of God. Which is what the Book of Mormon is based on. Mormon was a person and a prophet according to the "Book."

I married into it...and divorced out of it. Married in the Temple and had my name removed after. Even my kids don't believe the BS. I didn't sway them one bit - they made that decision all on their own after they grew up and were old enough to see through all the smoke and mirrors.

Sure, there are a lot of nice Mormons - and people I don't mind being friends with because they don't walk around with the holier than thou attitude. But there are a lot of them that do walk around like that and will not associate or let their children associate with non-members.

All that being said - yes, the genealogy work they do is pretty awesome.
Posted by CrimsonTideMD
Member since Dec 2010
6925 posts
Posted on 10/20/15 at 6:11 pm to
quote:

Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were both Pedophiles..
Read the book: "Under the Banner of Heaven"


And what would inquiring minds find if they read the Old Testament with a discerning eye???
Posted by northshorebamaman
Cochise County AZ
Member since Jul 2009
35578 posts
Posted on 10/20/15 at 6:15 pm to
quote:

But for those of us who have performed these various works for the dead know otherwise.
quote:

Eden being in Illinois or Indiana somewhere.

You've perfomed works for the dead and you can't remember Jackson County, Missouri?
Posted by soccerfüt
Location: A Series of Tubes
Member since May 2013
66283 posts
Posted on 10/20/15 at 6:32 pm to
I wrote:
You are a sad, angry man
quote:

you have no idea if this is true
Yes I do. You have written much here.

You asked me to prove that there have never been any miracles in history.

Really?

That's sad.

Congratulations on your impressive ability to ignore capitalization rules. Those rules are for the little people, your time can't be occupied with such trivialities. Have a nice life.
Posted by LucasP
Member since Apr 2012
21618 posts
Posted on 10/20/15 at 7:25 pm to
quote:

do you have one in mind?


Thanks for your patience, I'm a bit rusty on these type of discussions. I'd love to hear your take on one of my old favorites. Luke 14:26
quote:

y man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.


Doesn't this kinda contradict "love thy father and mother"?
Posted by White Roach
Member since Apr 2009
9479 posts
Posted on 10/20/15 at 7:43 pm to
I read something not too long ago about the tourism folks in Nauvoo, IL finally coming around to acknowledging their role in LDS history.
Posted by bfniii
Member since Nov 2005
17840 posts
Posted on 10/20/15 at 8:10 pm to
quote:

unlike most other religions during that time
who are these other religions? christians fought for slaves, even at their own peril. it seems you're implying that lds did something novel. moreover, your characterization is misleading for reasons i have pointed out in other posts in this thread. lds had a really bad, well documented stance and from all appearances, only changed because of pressure from the civil rights movement.
Posted by bfniii
Member since Nov 2005
17840 posts
Posted on 10/20/15 at 8:14 pm to
quote:

And they obviously can't get it on their own because THEY'RE DEAD!!
this is another problem i have with lds theology. on the one hand, you get a chance for salvation after death. so, what was the point of christ's sacrificial death? if you get another chance after this life, it was pointless for christ to die on the cross.
Posted by bfniii
Member since Nov 2005
17840 posts
Posted on 10/20/15 at 8:16 pm to
quote:

And what would inquiring minds find if they read the Old Testament with a discerning eye???
if they are spiritually mature, don't have their mind clouded by sin and are educated in proper hermeneutics, they should find precisely what the OT authors intended to say to their audience, both contemporaneous and modern.
Posted by bfniii
Member since Nov 2005
17840 posts
Posted on 10/20/15 at 8:19 pm to
quote:

Yes I do.
no you don't and it's pathetic for you to suggest otherwise. you don't know me irl like you are implying you do.

quote:

You asked me to prove that there have never been any miracles in history.
you were the one who criticized what the bible records as a miracle. you were the one who brought it up. and when you were challenged on it, you responded with jr high insults. good job.
Posted by soccerfüt
Location: A Series of Tubes
Member since May 2013
66283 posts
Posted on 10/20/15 at 8:21 pm to
quote:

good job.
Thanks. I try.
Posted by bfniii
Member since Nov 2005
17840 posts
Posted on 10/20/15 at 8:24 pm to
quote:

folks in Nauvoo, IL
here is yet another problem with lds.

when i visited with them, we watched a video about smith. smith went from church to church with dissatisfaction. he saw that the denominations were, in his uneducated opinion, making different claims (he was apparently unaware of melanchthon's adiaphora). so he got mad that the church had split into different factions and decided he would find the "true" church. so, he ultimately starts lds. the other denominations were apostates.

guess what? lds eventually split into multiple factions. ask an lds from utah how they feel about the ones in missouri. you won't get a nice answer. ask the ones in missouri how they feel about the ones in utah, same thing. so, they are guilty of the very same thing that smith criticized the other denominations of.
Posted by northshorebamaman
Cochise County AZ
Member since Jul 2009
35578 posts
Posted on 10/20/15 at 8:24 pm to
quote:

you were the one who brought it up. and when you were challenged on it, you responded with jr high insults.

You deserved insult. You asked him to disprove the existence of miracles. You engaged him with a fallacy.

This post was edited on 10/20/15 at 8:36 pm
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