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Started By
Message
10-shot groups to test rifle/load accuracy.
Posted on 5/31/15 at 6:21 pm
Posted on 5/31/15 at 6:21 pm
I know most swear by the old "tried-and-true" 3-shot group method while some insist on 5-shot groups. While testing out some handloads in my .30-06 and AR I decided to run 10-shot strings of each load without more pause than it took to write down the velocity from the chrony or reload the next 5 rounds into the .30-06. Figured I would get a better idea of how really accurate the test load was as well as see how the rifle behaves as it heats up and see if I'd get significant velocity changes from heat soak. What I figured with both the Ruger American I have and my AR is that neither seems to care about heat as far as accuracy and only the AR showed any increase in the average velocity with identical loads though by only by about 60fps. Heat seemed to do more to increase the standard deviation on velocities. My .30-06 loads were IMR4895 and IMR4064 and my AR loads used Varget and H335. IMR4895 is supposed to be more temperature sensitive but given how much case there is with .30-06 I guess you'd have to let it sit in a hot chamber for several minutes. Did find that the Ruger really likes 168gr OTM's at about 2500fps though I only had one set made. Seems like a good starting point before I start playing with seating depths.
About 0.80" c-c for 10-shots. Shot this right after warming up with the 5 Federal GM. Only setup for 50 yards because I didn't bring my spotting scope and the wind was pretty variable.
About 0.80" c-c for 10-shots. Shot this right after warming up with the 5 Federal GM. Only setup for 50 yards because I didn't bring my spotting scope and the wind was pretty variable.
Posted on 5/31/15 at 6:28 pm to Clames
5 shots, always 5. You weird
Eta... 50 yards....silly weird guy
Eta... 50 yards....silly weird guy
This post was edited on 5/31/15 at 6:29 pm
Posted on 5/31/15 at 7:15 pm to H.M. Murdock
Which is fine but doesn't tell you as much as 10. Considering hi-power rifle is always 10 shots it would seem the better indicator.
But what do those Service Rifle competitors know...
But what do those Service Rifle competitors know...
Posted on 5/31/15 at 7:42 pm to Clames
Those would probably turn in a respectable subMOA-1MOA at 100 once you perfect the loads. Those look pretty sweet.
How's the barrel and action on that Ruger? I hear nothing but good things about the American.
How's the barrel and action on that Ruger? I hear nothing but good things about the American.
Posted on 5/31/15 at 8:00 pm to bapple
I think 1 MOA is doable without too much more. The action is great now after getting some use, seems the magazine has a break-in period too as it was feeding very smoothly with very little effort. Barrel didn't collect anywhere near as much copper or powder residue as last time. Still looking into getting a Boyd stock though.
Oh, and the M1A hates brass. HATES it. I don't think I'll be reloading any of its brass back into it until I've had time to section a few pieces and take some measurements.
Oh, and the M1A hates brass. HATES it. I don't think I'll be reloading any of its brass back into it until I've had time to section a few pieces and take some measurements.
This post was edited on 5/31/15 at 8:06 pm
Posted on 5/31/15 at 8:46 pm to Clames
quote:
Oh, and the M1A hates brass. HATES it. I don't think I'll be reloading any of its brass back into it until I've had time to section a few pieces and take some measurements.
that doesn't cause you alarm?
pretty sure that would make me very concerned
Posted on 5/31/15 at 9:18 pm to cgrand
Well the M14's are known to beat up brass. It's how the gas system works, basically starts the extraction process while the case is still obturated in the chamber. That puts a lot of extra strain on the base of the brass. Rule of thumb is to toss the brass after 4 uses with the M1A/M14 and that's with mil-spec brass which is tougher and little thicker in the web and neck area. I was using PMC Bronze to get the initial zero but used some leftover Black Hills match to see what would happen. Both are supposed to be somewhat tougher than regular commercial brass but probably not as tough as Lake City M80. Problem is M80 is steel jacketed and I don't plan on running it.
Posted on 5/31/15 at 9:28 pm to Clames
So I'm not saying you won't get a 1MOA group out of that load, but aren't you still a ways from it? If you had a .8 group at 50 yards, that would be a 1.6 inch group at 100, correct? Shooting at 100 is likely to open up the group also. More time for wind effect and more difficult to aim as accurately. So I would think that group could be knocking on 2" at 100. Like you said, you still have seating depth and many other variables you can play with, so not saying you won't get there. My son in law bought a Ruger American in 3006 and he got 1.5" groups at 100 with off the shelf Monarch ammo. I was pretty impressed with the accuracy for the dollar ratio. He didn't have high dollar glass either. $150 Nikon in 3 x 9. I'm thinking about getting one for a drag around rifle. I love my guns but too many of them are almost too nice to take to the field without babying. I get tired of that. Good post. Thanks for all the info on how the RA is comimg along.
Posted on 5/31/15 at 9:45 pm to Tigerhead
That was just one by-the-book test load and 10 shots with no cool down. The first 3 shots went though space barely bigger than one of the small squares which is kind of why I did 10 shots. I'm making several more test loads tonight along with trying H4895 to see if a slightly faster powder might help. I using a 4-12x40 ProStaff so even 100yds is plenty close with my vision.
Posted on 5/31/15 at 10:27 pm to Clames
Gotcha Clames. I'm guessing those are 1/2" squares? So c to c on first 3 shots would be 1/2" or less. Definitely could get under 1 MOA @ 100 with cool down.
Posted on 5/31/15 at 10:27 pm to Clames
It's where the first two go that counts. Especially when shooting mountain type rifles with light barrels that heat up quickly. Heavier barrels may be good for one or two more but why-nothing is hanging around that long to see if you can put a bullet in it .
Posted on 6/1/15 at 12:00 am to mallardhank
That's true to a degree but understanding what a rifle can do in not-so-ideal conditions helps putting that bullet where it needs to go. I've got a few more 168's loaded and I'll do the rest tomorrow work. Going to put together some Sierra 175gn MK's too.
Posted on 6/1/15 at 8:06 am to Clames
Always shoot at 100yds when testing. At 50 it's just too close.
OCW is where it's at in load development. Less shots fired. Once you get the load perfected shoot 10 rounds at the max distance you plan to shoot at. It will tell you how accurate that load is.
OCW is where it's at in load development. Less shots fired. Once you get the load perfected shoot 10 rounds at the max distance you plan to shoot at. It will tell you how accurate that load is.
Posted on 6/1/15 at 8:25 am to saintsfan1977
Remember I use a chrony, fewer shots doesn't give a good average for velocity. My RA shows about 75fps to 100fps more velocity, averaged, at the starting loads than given in my Speer and Lyman manuals. Not sure why since it's a 22" barrel which is close to the 22" Remington 700 the manuals used to test and publish their data.
Posted on 6/1/15 at 8:29 am to Clames
Develop your own system to get where you need to be....everyone has a little bit different system.
For example...when I test loadings I usually load 15 of each loading then test. After I get a powder charge locked down I may switch to just messing with seating depth, etc... Trial and error and many range and bench hours...fun. enjoy it.
For example...when I test loadings I usually load 15 of each loading then test. After I get a powder charge locked down I may switch to just messing with seating depth, etc... Trial and error and many range and bench hours...fun. enjoy it.
Posted on 6/1/15 at 8:39 am to Clames
(no message)
This post was edited on 6/1/15 at 8:44 am
Posted on 6/1/15 at 9:10 am to H.M. Murdock
Just ordered a little digital micrometer setup to measure headspace with a fired case and chamber length to the ogive. Have a set of Sinclair tools for chamber length but you can't set the bullet depth very consistently with only calipers, even good OTMs are several thousandths variance at the nose.
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