- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
GOT Book Readers: Jon Snow question
Posted on 4/19/15 at 8:12 pm
Posted on 4/19/15 at 8:12 pm
How sure are we that he is Ned Stark's son?
Posted on 4/19/15 at 8:13 pm to weagle99
We are 99.9999999% sure he is not.
Posted on 4/19/15 at 8:17 pm to Fun Bunch
Gotcha. Haven't read the books but saw a theory.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Posted on 4/19/15 at 8:18 pm to Fun Bunch
To be clear it is still not known one way or the other. But the amount of evidence is strong.
Posted on 4/19/15 at 8:20 pm to weagle99
As said, we're not. There's a pretty strong theory that points to him not being, lots of detail in the books but only minor suggestions in the show.
Posted on 4/19/15 at 8:54 pm to weagle99
"He (Rhaegar) left my sister and ran off with some dark-haired northern wench." - Oberyn
Posted on 4/19/15 at 9:47 pm to weagle99
SPOILER from book 1 that was not in the show"
Tower of Joy scene in book 1 is the best evidence I can think of, but it was left out of the show entirely. It is a real shame because it was my favorite scene in all 5 books. It was a flash back to Ned Stark and 6 others going to the Tower of Joy where his sister was, protected by the 3 best kingsguards. Why would they be protecting Lyanna Stark instead of being with their king when he was besieged and betrayed? The logical explanation is they were protecting the unborn child, a Targaryen, son of Rhaegar.
Tower of Joy scene in book 1 is the best evidence I can think of, but it was left out of the show entirely. It is a real shame because it was my favorite scene in all 5 books. It was a flash back to Ned Stark and 6 others going to the Tower of Joy where his sister was, protected by the 3 best kingsguards. Why would they be protecting Lyanna Stark instead of being with their king when he was besieged and betrayed? The logical explanation is they were protecting the unborn child, a Targaryen, son of Rhaegar.
Posted on 4/19/15 at 10:03 pm to weagle99
quote:
How sure are we that he is Ned Stark's son?
The stories seemed shaky enough to question whether or not he was really a Stark. Ned was not a very good liar.
I've been on the R+L=J for a long, long time, which makes him a Stark, but not Ned's kid.
The only other serious possibility I am entertaining is that he is Ned and Ashara Dayne's kid (and possibly the new "Sword of the Morning") - but I have that much, much, much less likely than R+L=J.
This post was edited on 4/20/15 at 7:09 am
Posted on 4/19/15 at 10:07 pm to Ace Midnight
Don't think it matters who Jon Snows parents are. He could find out he was Jesus Christ reincarnated and would still stoically say "I'm a sworn brotha of tha nights watch" 4 times before brooding off into the cold
Posted on 4/19/15 at 10:11 pm to wildtigercat93
quote:
Don't think it matters who Jon Snows parents are. He could find out he was Jesus Christ reincarnated and would still stoically say "I'm a sworn brotha of tha nights watch" 4 times before brooding off into the cold
Posted on 4/19/15 at 10:12 pm to Byron Bojangles III
I'm mad. Deal with it
Posted on 4/19/15 at 10:28 pm to wildtigercat93
Yep, I'm afraid by honor he's stuck in the Night's Watch until he dies. Sucks for him.
Posted on 4/19/15 at 10:28 pm to wildtigercat93
Jon Snow is my favorite character in the books. He absolutely sucks on the show due to both acting and writing, but mainly acting.
Posted on 4/19/15 at 11:03 pm to OMLandshark
The R+L=J theory isn't complicated, OML.
Rhaegar had, arguably, his 3 best men not guarding the King and not with him at the trident. Why?
It has always been implied that he was protecting Lyanna, above all things, and his heir. That is more the action of a lover than a kidnapper, but Lyanna's status aside, Rhaegar expected to be king and the unborn child one of his heirs.
The N+A=J theory is much more complicated - tied back into the Tourney at Harenhall. If Ned and Ashara got together then, and then she killed herself after Ned returned Dawn to Starfall, unable to cope with the fact that her bastard's father had killed her brother. Ned then took the child to raise, without revealing his mother's name, to protect her family honor. Ironically, Ned has (relatively) clean hands at this point, because the fling at the tourney would have happened when Brandon was still alive and betrothed to Cat (sorry had Lyanna on the brain - along with Aerys - the most significant character in the books that was dead before the events). Timeline, I'm not sure Jon could have been passed off as a young enough age - unless he was just much smaller than Robb.
As to why I think R+L=J is much more plausible - why conceal the boy's parentage if he is the love child of Stark and Dayne? He's already illegitimate and Ned already takes the hit for fathering a bastard. No. It makes sense that if it is revealed that Jon is actually a Targaryen, he'd be killed, period, particularly if Robert knew it was the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna (remember? That's what started the whole war of the usurper in the first place).
Now - the problem is going to be - who has the best argument to be king/queen?
Dany is a child of the mad king - the aunt of Young Griff/Aegon (if he actually is who we all think he is, and not an imposter) and Jon (if R+L=J). So, if females can rise with existing male heirs - then Dany is the queen (and she has 3 dragons). But the dragon has three heads, right?
Are the 3 heads, Dany, Aegon and Jon Snow Stark Targaryen?
Rhaegar had, arguably, his 3 best men not guarding the King and not with him at the trident. Why?
It has always been implied that he was protecting Lyanna, above all things, and his heir. That is more the action of a lover than a kidnapper, but Lyanna's status aside, Rhaegar expected to be king and the unborn child one of his heirs.
The N+A=J theory is much more complicated - tied back into the Tourney at Harenhall. If Ned and Ashara got together then, and then she killed herself after Ned returned Dawn to Starfall, unable to cope with the fact that her bastard's father had killed her brother. Ned then took the child to raise, without revealing his mother's name, to protect her family honor. Ironically, Ned has (relatively) clean hands at this point, because the fling at the tourney would have happened when Brandon was still alive and betrothed to Cat (sorry had Lyanna on the brain - along with Aerys - the most significant character in the books that was dead before the events). Timeline, I'm not sure Jon could have been passed off as a young enough age - unless he was just much smaller than Robb.
As to why I think R+L=J is much more plausible - why conceal the boy's parentage if he is the love child of Stark and Dayne? He's already illegitimate and Ned already takes the hit for fathering a bastard. No. It makes sense that if it is revealed that Jon is actually a Targaryen, he'd be killed, period, particularly if Robert knew it was the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna (remember? That's what started the whole war of the usurper in the first place).
Now - the problem is going to be - who has the best argument to be king/queen?
Dany is a child of the mad king - the aunt of Young Griff/Aegon (if he actually is who we all think he is, and not an imposter) and Jon (if R+L=J). So, if females can rise with existing male heirs - then Dany is the queen (and she has 3 dragons). But the dragon has three heads, right?
Are the 3 heads, Dany, Aegon and Jon Snow Stark Targaryen?
This post was edited on 4/19/15 at 11:08 pm
Posted on 4/19/15 at 11:10 pm to Ace Midnight
My only problem with the theory is that I think Tywin would have almost certainly figured it out and would have found a way to sneak an assassin up to Winterfell to kill Jon. Jaime and LF would have their pride in knowing that honorable Ned has a bastard, but I don't think Tywin would not think that crap through that the 2 best members of the Kingsguard and Rhaegar's best friend were there guarding Lyanna Stark. Tywin I think is sly and calculating enough to see through this, although granted he didn't see his children's incest solely because he refused to see it.
I also think that Varys has figured it out, but those are the only 2 that really strike me as having the brains to figure it out.
I also think that Varys has figured it out, but those are the only 2 that really strike me as having the brains to figure it out.
Posted on 4/19/15 at 11:16 pm to Ace Midnight
We do not all think Aegon is legit.
Posted on 4/19/15 at 11:20 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
My only problem with the theory is that I think Tywin would have almost certainly figured it out and would have found a way to sneak an assassin up to Winterfell to kill Jon.
How? BOOK SPOILER BELOW FROM BEFORE THE FIRST SEASON
Only Ned and Howland Reed were the survivors of the tower of joy that could have known. Obviously neither would have said anything.
Posted on 4/19/15 at 11:21 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
My only problem with the theory is that I think Tywin would have almost certainly figured it out and would have found a way to sneak an assassin up to Winterfell to kill Jon.
A. Jon doesn't have the Targaryean "look" (which may also point away from him actually being Rhaegar's son)
B. Only Ned and Howland Reed survived the battle - there was no one left alive to even tell of a live born child.
C. More reason for Ned to concoct a story to make the child his.
D. Without the look and with Ned's support of Robert as King (and, therefore Tywin's grandchildren as royal heirs) - Tywin may have decided to let sleeping wolves lie.
quote:
I also think that Varys has figured it out
Maybe, heck probably, but he is pro Targaryean - if something doesn't work out with Dany or Young Griff, Jon is his "Targaryean" in the hole.
This post was edited on 4/19/15 at 11:25 pm
Posted on 4/19/15 at 11:23 pm to ohiovol
quote:
We do not all think Aegon is legit.
I'm not convinced, either.
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News