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Message
re: Paris just wanted it more than the London Russians
Posted on 3/11/15 at 11:52 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Posted on 3/11/15 at 11:52 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
I simply thought they had/have a little bit more quality than Chelsea
quote:
everyone who knew what they were talking about thought this.
I'm curious. What "experts" thought this was the case. Literally every pundit said PSG had a chance but Chelsea would go through. Chelsea have more quality at just about every position than PSG and more depth, but Mourinho got the tactics wrong and the players didn't take the game by the scruff of the neck. Winning a game doesn't mean you have more quality, it means you won a game.
6
Posted on 3/11/15 at 11:53 pm to mynamebowl
quote:
The match result was really only considered such a huge upset because this board heavily overvalues top 4 English clubs
FTFY
Posted on 3/11/15 at 11:55 pm to jackwoods4
quote:
What "experts" thought this was the case.
Just off the top of my head, both the express and the locker room on beinsport were bullish on PSG.
quote:
Chelsea have more quality at just about every position than PSG and more depth,
False. As was just proven over 2 legs.
Posted on 3/12/15 at 12:01 am to jackwoods4
This continual ignorance about teams outside of England(sans Bayern, Real, Barca, Atletico and maybe Juventus) that persists even when Paris totally outplays west london for over 200 minutes is mind boggling 
I know y'all don't watch ligue 1 but damn, do you really just ignore reality when it slaps you in the face?
I know y'all don't watch ligue 1 but damn, do you really just ignore reality when it slaps you in the face?
This post was edited on 3/12/15 at 12:02 am
Posted on 3/12/15 at 12:02 am to Draconian Sanctions
Oh I definitely am. But I also remember when some Ultras tagged the training ground with "Ligue 2 = Blood in the streets of Paris".
I think I'm just trying to justify my cynicism. I haven't jumped around so much after a PSG match since Menez scored the league winner at Lyon.
I think I'm just trying to justify my cynicism. I haven't jumped around so much after a PSG match since Menez scored the league winner at Lyon.
Posted on 3/12/15 at 12:06 am to nvasil1
Tomorrow uncle Roman is gonna be all like das vidanya on the Chelsea players.
This post was edited on 3/12/15 at 12:08 am
Posted on 3/12/15 at 12:17 am to jackwoods4
quote:
Chelsea have more quality at just about every position than PSG and more depth, but Mourinho got the tactics wrong and the players didn't take the game by the scruff of the neck. Winning a game doesn't mean you have more quality, it means you won a game
True, winning doesn't necessarily mean you have more quality. But I haven't seen anyone disagree that PSG was the better team over both legs. Even the typically defiant Mourinho acknowledged this after the match.
Posted on 3/12/15 at 12:24 am to jackwoods4
What makes you think Chelsea have more quality than PSG? Both teams are loaded with star players. And while Chelsea have more depth, it's marginal in reality.
Chelsea's biggest problem under Jose is that they are caught between parking the bus and attacking. They didn't need a goal, but the home side in a 2nd leg is always at a disadvantage. What Chelsea misses from Jose's first reign is the ability to move from attacking into defending a lead. I'll argue that any team with Fabregas in midfield will struggle with defensive spacing. Not only that, certain players are included just because Fabregas unbalances a team. He's been a massive headache to include tactically for three of the world's most famous managers. And to top it off he's only had 2 assists since the new year, having already played 12 games. He often faded in the second half of the year, but if he's not offering the final ball, he should be dropped for certain games where it makes sense to do so. Though he covers ground, he doesn't really tackle nor does he do a good job of helping his midfield partners. Chelsea need another midfielder who can displace Fabregas for certain games and still contribute to the overall team play. Think someone like Schneiderlein.
Chelsea's biggest problem under Jose is that they are caught between parking the bus and attacking. They didn't need a goal, but the home side in a 2nd leg is always at a disadvantage. What Chelsea misses from Jose's first reign is the ability to move from attacking into defending a lead. I'll argue that any team with Fabregas in midfield will struggle with defensive spacing. Not only that, certain players are included just because Fabregas unbalances a team. He's been a massive headache to include tactically for three of the world's most famous managers. And to top it off he's only had 2 assists since the new year, having already played 12 games. He often faded in the second half of the year, but if he's not offering the final ball, he should be dropped for certain games where it makes sense to do so. Though he covers ground, he doesn't really tackle nor does he do a good job of helping his midfield partners. Chelsea need another midfielder who can displace Fabregas for certain games and still contribute to the overall team play. Think someone like Schneiderlein.
This post was edited on 3/12/15 at 12:26 am
Posted on 3/12/15 at 12:45 am to jackwoods4
quote:
I'm curious. What "experts" thought this was the case. Literally every pundit said PSG had a chance but Chelsea would go through.
Pretty much the only pundits I heard thinking it was more than 50/50 in Chelsea's favor were English (or American that cover EPL). Reading Italian news it was hard to hear many that didn't pick PSG which certainly goes to show some bias in both directions toward familiar players but also should serve as corrective to the full on EPL all everything you get from English pundits.
quote:
Chelsea have more quality at just about every position than PSG
I disagree. I would take Silva + Marquinhos + Luiz in a heartbeat. I would also take the PSG midfield as it's no accident or just bad tactics that they won in both legs.
Up front both Chelsea and PSG are stocked with the highest transfer feed players in Europe and I'd take Hazard first. However, Ibra is so vastly underrated (seriously just look at all his passing in build up today for what everyone says was his "bad" game). Cavani, Pastore, Lavezzi etc are as good as what Chelsea has and PSG is missing Moura as well.
In short, the squads are pretty close (as 4 matches the last 2 years reveal) as there's not one segment of any team that's so superior. However, that I'd take PSG's CBs and midfield certainly tips the balance.
quote:
more depth
That PSG brought Motta in to start this match and he was outstanding then Rabiot, Van Der Wiel and Lavezzi just as they needed them doesn't convince me they lack for highest caliber depth.
They also have Aurier, Digne, Cabaye etc.
I'm not saying they are so superior to Chelsea but, like I said, overall have slightly more quality as the two legs kind of showed just from run of play even before the red card. Perhaps it's that I'm not quite as high on some guys like Willian, Ramires or really even Fabregas or Oscar as Chelsea fans and EPL pundits even if I think they're all very good players.
If PSG's players were bought by EPL sides you'd hear their praises ringing from hill to dale.
This post was edited on 3/12/15 at 12:48 am
Posted on 3/12/15 at 12:48 am to nvasil1
quote:
Chelsea have more quality at just about every position than PSG and more depth,
See, I disagree completely here. Maybe depth wise Chelsea has the advantage (maybe), but I think their talent is overstated a bit.
Position by Position
GK: Courtois > Sirigu
CB: Silva/Luiz > Terry/Cahill (I thought Mou would go with Kouma instead of Cahill)
Outside Backs: Marquinhos/Maxwell/Van Der Wiel v Ivanovic/Azpilicueta is about a push.
MF: Fabregas/Matic/Ramires/Zouma v Matuidi/Verratti/Motta/Rabiot is probably a push too. Matuidi was a monster in that game today.
The forwards is the difference for me. Ibra/Pastore/Cavani/Lavezzi > Hazard/Costa/Oscar/Willian/Drogba. I don't get the fascination with Oscar. I don't think he's half the player Coutinho is. Hazard disappears at times. and Costa is just a douche. I wanted to see Cuadrado get a chance. he's a fun player to watch.
I'm strictly talking about talent here, not necessarily how they performed today.
Posted on 3/12/15 at 12:48 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
What makes you think Chelsea have more quality than PSG? Both teams are loaded with star players. And while Chelsea have more depth, it's marginal in reality.
Chelsea's biggest problem under Jose is that they are caught between parking the bus and attacking
Exactly. Actually, if you listen to Jose's comments about PSG's "aggression" after the 1st leg and his post-match comments today, I think he was afraid of PSG's quality. Instead of trying to kill the tie after Zlatan's red card, Chelsea seemed more concerned about defending PSG's ability to counter because they knew PSG only needed one goal.
quote:
I'll argue that any team with Fabregas in midfield will struggle with defensive spacing. Not only that, certain players are included just because Fabregas unbalances a team. He's been a massive headache to include tactically for three of the world's most famous managers. And to top it off he's only had 2 assists since the new year, having already played 12 games
Nice analysis. He was pretty much a ghost today and when the ref wasn't breaking the flow up with fouls, PSG looked the bigger threat with a man down. Veratti, Matuidi and Rabiot all looked more comfortable on the ball in midfield.
Posted on 3/12/15 at 12:56 am to mynamebowl
quote:
GK: Courtois > Sirigu
CB: Silva/Luiz > Terry/Cahill (I thought Mou would go with Kouma instead of Cahill)
Outside Backs: Marquinhos/Maxwell/Van Der Wiel v Ivanovic/Azpilicueta is about a push.
MF: Fabregas/Matic/Ramires/Zouma v Matuidi/Verratti/Motta/Rabiot is probably a push too. Matuidi was a monster in that game today.
The forwards is the difference for me. Ibra/Pastore/Cavani/Lavezzi > Hazard/Costa/Oscar/Willian/Drogba.
I tend to agree aside from midfield.
You can argue individual talents but I would easily take any combination of Verratti - Matuidi - Motta - Rabiot over anything Chelsea could come up with.
Posted on 3/12/15 at 12:58 am to wm72
quote:
I would easily take any combination of Verratti - Matuidi - Motta - Rabiot over anything Chelsea could come up with.
I didn't have the balls to say it in my other post, but I agree. Cesc doesn't have enough guys in that Chelsea team he can play football with.
Posted on 3/12/15 at 1:06 am to wm72
quote:
However, Ibra is so vastly underrated (seriously just look at all his passing in build up today for what everyone says was his "bad" game).
Thank you!
Ibra gets a lot of criticism, but he was tracking back and linking up well for the 20 mins he was out there. He got harshly sent off going after a 50/50 ball. There are plenty of forwards who wouldn't bother.
quote:
If PSG's players were bought by EPL sides you'd hear their praises ringing from hill to dale.
This might have to do with the perception of Ligue 1, but I agree. If many of their players had gone to England or Spain, they'd be seen in a different light. I haven't seen anyone mention that Lucas is injured; he's been a brilliant player for PSG and could play for almost anyone.
Posted on 3/12/15 at 1:14 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
What makes you think Chelsea have more quality
If I'm making an 11 with players from both teams, I'd probably have at least 6 Chelsea players in there. It's literally a toss up though. I'm biased. You can make a definite case for either team. I'd say the only area of the field PSG are significantly better is midfield. It doesn't necessarily come down to quality either, but they're just more balanced and work so well together.
This would be my 11 combining both teams:
Courtois, Ivanovic, Terry, Silva, Dave, Matic, Matuidi, and either Motta or Verratti, Hazard, Costa/Ibra (Push) and Lucas.
quote:
But I haven't seen anyone disagree that PSG was the better team over both legs.
As I've said already, PSG definitely deserved to go through. However, I don't think that necessarily means they have more quality.
quote:
I would take Silva + Marquinhos + Luiz in a heartbeat.
I'll disagree. Silva is quality and so is Marquinhos. However, I'd take Terry or Zouma in a heartbeat over Luiz. He's switched off far less this season, but he's still a huge risk at the back IMO.
quote:
This continual ignorance about teams outside of England
I watch A LOT of games, and not just Premier League. You won't hear me trying to argue it is "the best league in the world" (although it is the most exciting IMO). I didn't have a lack of knowledge about the talent PSG boasted. However, I assumed that coming to London would prove to be too much for them as it was last year. They haven't exactly won a lot of knockout stage matches against big opponents lately and they're in 2nd in a league they should be cruising in with all of this "elite quality" they have.
This post was edited on 3/12/15 at 1:17 am
Posted on 3/12/15 at 1:25 am to nvasil1
quote:
This might have to do with the perception of Ligue 1, but I agree. If many of their players had gone to England or Spain, they'd be seen in a different light.
I think it's really just that people rave about the players they see every day and most don't watch enough around Europe to really know. The irony is that most of the PSG stars were the first choice targets of EPL sides that ended up settling for someone else.
quote:
I haven't seen anyone mention that Lucas is injured; he's been a brilliant player for PSG and could play for almost anyone.
I mentioned him but it's probably hard to pick out in my rant above
The other thing about PSG is that youth system seems pretty stacked with players ready to step up.
I should add that I'm saying this as a Roma fan that loved Marquinhos, think not pushing harder to buy Verratti a year earlier than PSG did was the biggest mistake the current management has made and is somewhat bitter over the Rabiot tease this summer/fall.
Posted on 3/12/15 at 1:37 am to jackwoods4
quote:
This would be my 11 combining both teams:
Courtois, Ivanovic, Terry, Silva, Dave, Matic, Matuidi, and either Motta or Verratti, Hazard, Costa/Ibra (Push) and Lucas.
I don't really disagree though many could be pretty close calls aside from two points:
Verratti and Ibra are 100% shoe-ins who along with Hazard you build the rest of the lineup around.
Posted on 3/12/15 at 1:40 am to jackwoods4
quote:
It's literally a toss up though. I'm biased. You can make a definite case for either team.
quote:
However, I don't think that necessarily means they have more quality
Fine, but your statements seem to agree that the teams are at least equal in quality. The four matches in the last two years seem to justify that.
quote:
However, I'd take Terry or Zouma in a heartbeat over Luiz. He's switched off far less this season, but he's still a huge risk at the back IMO
Luiz has his moments, but I don't think he's as big a risk as you think. He also offers much more going forward than Terry or Zouma. Your opinion is your opinion, but I don't think Luiz should be taken over in a heartbeat. The guy helped Chelsea win the Champions League after all.
Posted on 3/12/15 at 1:47 am to jackwoods4
quote:
Costa/Ibra (Push)
Dude. Ibra is an all time great player. One of the most unique talents ever with what he's able to do technically at his size. Costa is very good, but nowhere near the player that Ibra is.
Posted on 3/12/15 at 1:49 am to jackwoods4
quote:
Costa/Ibra (Push)
:|
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