re: Sad state of affairs for leftists

You didn't even mention his largest failure, in my opinion, which was his selling the country a bill of goods in the form of the stimulus bill. If allocated correctly, it could have resulted in some of the largest capital deepening this country has ever seen. Instead , only 12% or so went to actual infrastructure investment, with much of the remainder being used for political purposes. The bad thing for him was that if that unprecedented spending ability was used correctly, it very well could have cemented a very favorable legacy for him had it resulted in substantially higher GDP growth (which is certainly possible).

But missed opportunities are what you get when people who don't understand basic economics vote for the media's feel-good candidate with no substantial qualifications (especially relative to modern presidential history).

So we agree. Great news.

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Sad state of affairs for leftists

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crappy trolls

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I feel bad for you because it really does seem like you're really looking for a board that fosters open debate and not an echo chamber.

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Ah, certainly, Philosopher. The Conservative does not emote. The Conservative has no sentimental attachments to words, and neither passions nor fears drive his Politics. He is only loyal to Reason, compounded with a high Morality. Surely one never sees, indeed, emoting on this board dominated by the Conservative.

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Definitely not. The calls for liberals that run the gamut from the simple "Don't vote anymore" to the more direct "Burn in hell for all you've done to destroy this country" is certainly not emotion based and I'm offended by the very thought that posts of that nature are implied to be driven by anything other than strict, cold logic.

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However, he set the stage for the overbearing fattened pig of a federal government that we have today, which would certainly put him in the running for worst president of the 20th century, calling him the best is intellectually dishonest,

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^^^^

I am getting hit on all sides about FDR, so let's ask the scholars and historians?

LINK

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Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.
The Age of Roosevelt (three volumes, 1957, 1958, 1960)
American democracy has finally clasped FDR to its bosom. Polls show that Washington, Lincoln, and FDR are regarded beyond dispute as our three greatest Presidents. Newt Gingrich, no stouter-hearted Republican than Newt, rates FDR the greatest 20th-century President. FDR's New Deal is no longer to be condemned as a mortal threat to the American way of life. Instead, as President George W. Bush discovered when he tried to fool around with Social Security, New Deal reforms are generally blessed. And their architect is admired and adored.

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In the Shadow of FDR (1983; 3rd ed., 2001)
My most vivid recollection of the FDR centennial is a celebratory luncheon at the White House. Into the room swept the jaunty President of the United States, Ronald Reagan, his face wreathed in a radiant smile. He spoke with unbridled enthusiasm of what an inspiration Roosevelt had been to him, then asked us to raise our glasses in a toast—to "Happy Days!"

The biggest change over the past 25 years is that the United States will never again have a President in any meaningful way acquainted with FDR. For Reagan, Roosevelt was a palpable presence. He voted for him all four times; listened raptly to his fireside chats; and cited him approvingly in his inaugural address. In contrast, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush were each born a year after Roosevelt died.

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Presidential Scholar Survey (Aggregate FDR #2 President)

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General Findings

Abraham Lincoln, Franklin D. Roosevelt and George Washington are consistently ranked at the top of the lists. Often ranked just below those Presidents are Thomas Jefferson and Theodore Roosevelt. The remaining places in the top ten are often rounded out by Harry S. Truman, Woodrow Wilson, Dwight D. Eisenhower, James K. Polk, and Andrew Jackson. Presidents such as John F. Kennedy, Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton tend to be rated among the greatest in public opinion polls, but do not always rank as highly among presidential scholars and historians. The bottom ten often includes Andrew Johnson, Franklin Pierce, Warren G. Harding, Millard Fillmore, James Buchanan, Herbert Hoover, Martin Van Buren, Zachary Taylor, John Tyler, and George W. Bush. Because William Henry Harrison (32 days) and James A. Garfield (200 days, incapacitated after 119 days) both died shortly after taking office, they are sometimes omitted from presidential rankings. Zachary Taylor also died after serving as president for only 16 months, but is usually included. In the case of these three, it is not clear if they received low rankings due to their actions as president, or because each was president for such a limited time that it is not possible to assess them more thoroughly.

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Closest thing to a tyrant emperor the country has ever seen.

WW2 saved him by getting the economy going.

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Funny how Lincoln is portrayed the same way?

The 2 presidents that did what was necessary to keep the country intact. Let's see how the people viewed FDR?

1932 Electorial Map



1936 Electorial Map

Just because people like it doesn't mean anything. Heroin addicts love heroin, until they run out and have to come down.

Social security is just that, economic heroin. At first people could see it for what it was, but as the decades wore on, the people grew a tolerance for it. Now, unfortunately, many dim witted 20 and 30 somethings are saving only pittance, with the foolish belief that the system they paid into will be there to support them in the way it. Is promised. It won't. That is not a political statement, it is math. The left and the right have different inputs that change when we will go bankrupt, but neither deny that we will.

In reply to the band of brothers comment, that generation was lucky because it could point a gun at their enemy. Our enemy is internal. It's like comparing getting attacked by a dog to being diagnosed with cancer.

Social Security will need to be reformed but it won't end. I've already conceded that fact in an earlier post. But, let's stick to your narrative which is that Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid should be abolished along with probably welfare as we know it?

I am going to give a cynical view on these social programs. In every civilization the poor threaten the rich or those who have a better means of life. The poor uprise, steal and kill to send a message of anarchy to the powers that be. In every civilization a certain level of handouts must be given so that society, economies etc. can function in a predictable pattern. Imagine the 1930's with half the nation out of work? Only the government had the ability to leverage the country out of a living and breathing hell that was the United States. Programs were created the FDIC, CWA (infrastructure projects), NIRA (minimum wage), Fair Labor Act (protecting kids), stopped Proibition and enacted the SEC.

Social Security today is not what he intended it to be. Other presidents and congress grew the program. FDR believed every man should "strap on their boots and go to work". FDR didn't even want the program the way it was written. Take a look at the way FDR wanted SS to be written and how it was changed.

You claim he is the worst president of the 20th century. Yea, the man got this country out the Great Depression and took us into WWII. The 2 greatest threats this country faced in the 20th century (excluding nuclear war).

LINK

In May 1939, U.S. unemployment still exceeded 20%.

FDR was a mixed bag. He was a good war leader but he was also philosophically a not-so-distant cousin to the Fascists of his day. He raised taxes to confiscatory levels pre-war, greatly retarding economic activity and prolonging a terrible recession. His excise taxes KILLED people with limited budgets, and consumers were as cash-poor as any time in modern American history.He placed layer after layer of regulations and laws on American businesses that absolutely destroyed job creation. World War II bailed him out.

He prosecuted the war like a BOSS.