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re: 'Moses was schizophrenic'
Posted on 10/28/14 at 3:33 pm to biglego
Posted on 10/28/14 at 3:33 pm to biglego
quote:
Much of what Moses did, or what was done under his watch, could easily be considered barbaric. The slaughtering, for example
Was there murder? Sure. But to say MUCH of what he did was barbaric is ignorant.
Do you realize just how revolutionary and merciful the Torah was in its ANE context? In Egypt, for instance, slaves could be killed for whatever rhyme or reason. They were lower than property. In the Torah, there are layers upon layers of protection and avenues of freedom for slaves.
Moses prayed and gave water to the very people wanting to kill him multiple times.
He led them out of slavery and on a path to creating a civilized culture of law. That's the OPPOSITE of barbaric.
2
Posted on 10/28/14 at 3:37 pm to Hester Carries
quote:
How do you figure? You limited the possibilities to 3 situations and showed how in none of them would Moses have been schizophrenic. I explained how those are not the only 3 possibilities (or even the 3 most likely) and that in some Moses could still be deranged/confused.
Correct. And your new fourth scenario involved another group of gullible authors a generation removed from Moses (cf Moses Burial and subsequent writing of the Torah). That's another layer of supposition removed from Moses himself - who is the very subject of this debate.
This post was edited on 10/28/14 at 3:38 pm
Posted on 10/28/14 at 3:59 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
That's another layer of supposition removed from Moses himself - who is the very subject of this debate.
Doesnt matter. Nothing after "Moses believed he was talking to god and that the events of exodus occured" matters. Whether he wrote it down, or someone else wrote it down, or Moses told someone who told someone who told someone who wrote it down. It doesnt matter. All that matters (given that Moses existed) was that he believed it.
Now that we know those events did not historically happen either...
the story, including the characters (excluding Ramses II) are fictional.
Moses was a con man.
Moses was schizophrenic.
and this doesnt have anything to do with the existence of God either.
This post was edited on 10/28/14 at 4:00 pm
Posted on 10/28/14 at 4:13 pm to Byron Bojangles III
It's funny how upset people get over this considering it's debated by scholars whether Moses really existed or not.
Posted on 10/28/14 at 4:19 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
Was there murder? Sure. But to say MUCH of what he did was barbaric is ignorant.
Ignorant is a word tossed around by pretentious people trying to show how smart they are. In the Moses books, there was a lot of murder, a lot of animal slaughter, a lot of genocide. The god he preached openly condoned murder and bloodshed. That's barbaric to me.
quote:
Moses prayed and gave water to the very people wanting to kill him multiple times
Assassination attempts happen, and Moses handled them with violence. Or God handled them with violence. Either way.
quote:
He led them out of slavery and on a path to creating a civilized culture of law. That's the OPPOSITE of barbaric.
Well he led them to a land his tribe claimed as their own, and commenced retaking that land through bloodshed. Their goal was a nation of their own, which is not a unique goal. the thing that separates the Hebrews from the other tribes of the time is the Torah. That the Torah exists and survives and sprung forth two other religions.
Posted on 10/28/14 at 4:22 pm to donut
quote:
It's funny how upset people get over this considering it's debated by scholars whether Moses really existed or not.
Up until about 50 years ago there was no physical evidence for the existence of Pontius Pilate, the Roman governor who sentenced Jesus to death. And those events occurred roughly 2,000 years after the events of Exodus. There has been so much that has been lost to history.
Posted on 10/28/14 at 4:23 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
theunknownknight
Lighten up, [Pope] Francis.
Posted on 10/28/14 at 4:38 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Up until about 50 years ago there was no physical evidence for the existence of Pontius Pilate,
To compare the lack of evidence for the existence of 1 man to the lack of evidence and historical contradictory evidence to the existence and migration of 2 million people is little misguided.
Posted on 10/28/14 at 4:56 pm to Hester Carries
quote:
2 million people
Did not participate in the Exodus. The number was probably somewhere below 100,000. Moses writes that only 40,000 Israelites crossed the Jordan into Israel. That 2 million figure was Moses's way of including the living as well as the dead as having an inheritance in Israel.
Posted on 10/28/14 at 5:49 pm to RollTide1987
600,000 men, their wives and children ...
Inconsequential though. The number could be 2,000. Historians and athropologist say it didn't happen.
Inconsequential though. The number could be 2,000. Historians and athropologist say it didn't happen.
Posted on 10/28/14 at 7:02 pm to Byron Bojangles III
quote:
‘one of the most barbaric individuals that I ever read about in my life,
This is fairly accurate at least.
Posted on 10/28/14 at 7:42 pm to Byron Bojangles III
As a Christian and reading the old test...
Its how you end up from where you started that is the crux of faith and belief.
quote:can be applied to many.
he described his character as 'barbaric' and 'schizophrenic'.
Its how you end up from where you started that is the crux of faith and belief.
Posted on 10/28/14 at 8:07 pm to goatmilker
quote:
Its how you end up from where you started that is the crux of faith and belief.
Not sure what this means. Clarify?
Posted on 10/28/14 at 8:23 pm to Hester Carries
quote:
Historians and athropologist say it didn't happen.
They said a lot of stories from the Bible didn't happen until they found archeological evidence for their occurrence. Just because they say it didn't happen now doesn't mean they'll be saying the same thing in 100 years.
Posted on 10/28/14 at 8:31 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
The number was probably somewhere below 100,000. Moses writes that only 40,000 Israelites crossed the Jordan into Israel. That 2 million figure was Moses's way of including the living as well as the dead as having an inheritance in Israel.
Absurd rationalization, but it matters not how many were involved. The Egyptians were the greatest record keepers of the ancient world, and arguably even better than the Romans given what was lost at Alexandria. There is not a single mention of the events of Exodus anywhere in their history. Not ONE SINGLE MENTION of thousands of slaves and their God overwhelming the greatest civilization the world had ever seen with miraculous occurrences and the sudden death of thousands.
The lack of archeological evidence is secondary to this fact.
Posted on 10/28/14 at 8:34 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
In Egypt, for instance, slaves could be killed for whatever rhyme or reason.
Slaves were treated remarkably well in Egyptian society, and most of their labor force was paid Egyptians and not slaves. The Hebrews did not build the pyramids as popular culture says, nor did any other slave force. it was well paid Egyptian labor.
Posted on 10/28/14 at 8:37 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
There is not a single mention of the events of Exodus anywhere in their history. Not ONE SINGLE MENTION of thousands of slaves and their God overwhelming the greatest civilization the world had ever seen with miraculous occurrences and the sudden death of thousands.
Except there is. An Ancient Papyrus, dated near the fall of the Old Kingdom, reads like this:
quote:
Plague is throughout the land. Blood is everywhere.
The river is blood.
That is our water! That is our happiness! What shall we do in respect thereof? All is ruin!
Trees are destroyed.
No fruit or herbs are found.
Forsooth, gates, columns and walls are consumed by fire.
Forsooth, grain has perished on every side.
The land is not light [dark].
That sounds like the ten plagues of Egypt to me. But whatever.
This post was edited on 10/28/14 at 8:38 pm
Posted on 10/28/14 at 8:42 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
An Ancient Papyrus,
The greatest supernatural act of all time and there is ONE ambiguous mention of it. Cmon man
Posted on 10/28/14 at 8:43 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
An Ancient Papyrus, dated near the fall of the Old Kingdom, reads like this
It's a poem, a work of literature not intended to be a historical document. Every Christian archeologist ever has tried to get that thing legitimized, and every single time Egyptologists and non-biased sources shoot them down.
Nice of you to leave out that MINOR fact.
This post was edited on 10/28/14 at 8:45 pm
Posted on 10/28/14 at 8:45 pm to Roger Klarvin
Do you have an example of a historical document?
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