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Started By
Message
re: regulators mount up militias to take on LBM in nevada.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 3:19 pm to Salmon
Posted on 4/11/14 at 3:19 pm to Salmon
quote:
people are getting a bit carried away with thinking that the government just came in and stole this guys land.
They are stealing his cows. To pay off his debt and fees.
He says he doesn't recognize any claim the feds have to it. The grazing rights, just like mineral rights can be severed. His great grandpa made that deal with the state in the 1800's. The Feds created the BLM, and everything was fine when they worked together and took care of the property. It went South when they started using bogus excuses like the turtles to justify reducing the numbers of cattle or just buying people out. It became obvious that the fed govt. was over regulating with the intent to drive these people out of their way of life and seize control of thousands of acres of public property.
Speaking of public property, that's another issue. The feds have put up barracades where state highways enter the property and won't let people access the property.
0
Posted on 4/11/14 at 3:19 pm to CalcasieuTiger
quote:
Im rooting for the little guy.
sure I guess
but if he wins, get ready for the Indians to fight for their right to go hunting in Yellowstone or on your property
Posted on 4/11/14 at 3:19 pm to KingRanch
Posted on 4/11/14 at 3:21 pm to Salmon
quote:
but if he wins, get ready for the Indians to fight for their right to go hunting in Yellowstone or on your property
doubtful
This post was edited on 4/11/14 at 3:22 pm
Posted on 4/11/14 at 3:22 pm to Salmon
quote:
but people are getting a bit carried away with thinking that the government just came in and stole this guys land.
I can see why he thought he wasn't being dealt with fairly. The feds own most of Nevada, and grazing rights are probably at a premium. He probably relied on those rights to subsist.
The heavy hand of the fed is what most people object to. We've seen it lately here in Alaska. In fact, there are hearings being held about the overreach and militant behavior right now. I'm sympathetic to the guy.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 3:23 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
The heavy hand of the fed is what most people object to.
I get that
the attention this is getting from the feds with all the armed forces is really scary
Posted on 4/11/14 at 3:27 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
The feds own most of Nevada
86% if you believe Wikipedia.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 3:27 pm to Salmon
And they lease the land dirt cheap.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 3:28 pm to Mr. Tom Morrow
most of the western US is federal land
Posted on 4/11/14 at 3:30 pm to Mr. Tom Morrow
quote:
The feds own most of Nevada
86% if you believe Wikipedia.
It's near 90%. Many of these ranchers paid per head for grazing rights. The feds began protecting land and retracting these rights or buying out the ranchers. We've had some dealings with this around here involving logging, and lawsuits ended with the feds paying communities for lost revenues.
The militarized actions of some of these departments is something new. The EPA recently "raided" some local mines in AK to check water violations dressed like stormtroopers. They aren't going to make many friends with those kind of tactics.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 3:31 pm to Salmon
I have an issue with some of these ranchers. Most of them get pretty much free land from the Feds, and act like it's theirs. They get pissed off about the Bison and wolf population around Yellowstone.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 3:33 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Your cliff notes version KR -
Foraging rights - Nevada at one time let owners claim foraging rights on land Nevada owned. This is very similar to our mineral or timber rights. These owned rights are perpetural and do not change ownership unless sold, just like our mineral and timer rights. Bundys family owned quite a bit of the land in question in 1887 when foraging rights deed was filed. Over time, the gubment has "aquired" much of this land from the Bundy family thru eminent domain. When, in the late 80's the BLM started charging grazing fees. Bundy payed these minor dues that were based on the number of head owned. Still having ownership of the foraging rights, Bundy could have challenged the charges, but instead paid the fees. Not because he had to, but because his neighbors had to. He did it to keep the peace with the other local ranchers. In 1993 when he quit paying the fees, the price had gone from .02 an acre to 0.25 an acre based on the size of your herd. Those fees plus other gubment BS has closed the other 51 cattle ranches in Clarke County, Bundy is the only one left. This is not about anything the reports tell or even the BLM, its about location....
Foraging rights - Nevada at one time let owners claim foraging rights on land Nevada owned. This is very similar to our mineral or timber rights. These owned rights are perpetural and do not change ownership unless sold, just like our mineral and timer rights. Bundys family owned quite a bit of the land in question in 1887 when foraging rights deed was filed. Over time, the gubment has "aquired" much of this land from the Bundy family thru eminent domain. When, in the late 80's the BLM started charging grazing fees. Bundy payed these minor dues that were based on the number of head owned. Still having ownership of the foraging rights, Bundy could have challenged the charges, but instead paid the fees. Not because he had to, but because his neighbors had to. He did it to keep the peace with the other local ranchers. In 1993 when he quit paying the fees, the price had gone from .02 an acre to 0.25 an acre based on the size of your herd. Those fees plus other gubment BS has closed the other 51 cattle ranches in Clarke County, Bundy is the only one left. This is not about anything the reports tell or even the BLM, its about location....
Posted on 4/11/14 at 3:33 pm to Teague
You left out the part about desert tortoise. Feds need to save the desert tortoise from the cows that eat up all the vegetation
Posted on 4/11/14 at 3:34 pm to Salmon
quote:
the attention this is getting from the feds with all the armed forces is really scary
LINK
quote:
Brent Cole, an Anchorage attorney who won the bid for the investigation, also said in his 65-page report that officers of the Alaska Environmental Crimes Task Force acted appropriately while conducting their investigation. But Cole's report added that federal officials interfered and did not cooperate with his investigation. There was no need for criminal investigation of eight area placer mines in the first place, the report asserted, but for unknown reasons the EPA did so anyway.
In this case, many of the miners believe the EPA was looking for reasons to chase these family miners from their claims. Dressed in riot gear, they descended on these mines to check "water violations." While no laws were found to be broken (it's the government) they certainly have eroded faith.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 3:34 pm to AUCE05
Im pretty sure he said he would pay the state the money, just wouldnt pay the feds.
Also, he said Nevada owned the land not the feds so he doesnt recognize their authority in this situation.
Seems to me both sides have valid points and both sides have really ridiculous dumb invalid psychotic points they are trying to prove.
Also, he said Nevada owned the land not the feds so he doesnt recognize their authority in this situation.
Seems to me both sides have valid points and both sides have really ridiculous dumb invalid psychotic points they are trying to prove.
Posted on 4/11/14 at 3:35 pm to kengel2
I agree. I'm not getting shot over cows. 
Posted on 4/11/14 at 3:39 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
The militarized actions of some of these departments is something new.
In fairness, the rancher said he would do whatever it takes to stop them. The feds just want to show a large enough force that the rancher and his crew dont start something they cant finish.
Im not for big government using intimidation and I understand the rancher has been through the courts and feels there is no other way to fight than with "force". I can also understand the large presence the feds have shown. It may keep a hot head rancher from doing something stupid.
This post was edited on 4/11/14 at 3:43 pm
Posted on 4/11/14 at 3:40 pm to AUCE05
quote:
I'm not getting shot over cows
It's not about cows, it's about liberty freedom and the pursuit of happiness
Posted on 4/11/14 at 3:42 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Dressed in riot gear
Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it
Posted on 4/11/14 at 3:42 pm to FelicianaTigerfan
quote:
I can also understand the large presence the feds have shown. It may keep a hot head rancher from doing something stupid.
I honestly think it will have the opposite affect. Westerners aren't always the most trusting of big government.
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