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What did Jefferson mean by "all men are created equal"?

Posted on 2/13/14 at 8:41 am
Posted by fouldeliverer
Lannisport
Member since Nov 2008
13538 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 8:41 am
In a radio broadcast in October of 1939, Winston Churchill stated "It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key." He was speaking about Russia, but the quote applies, in my opinion, to Jefferson. Thomas Jefferson was paradoxical, hypocritical, and at times even a liar. Joseph Ellis rightly dubbed him The American Sphinx. Yet when he wrote that "all men are created equal" he meant it, just not in the way most modern readers would interpret it. Jefferson meant equal in the eyes of God. Men were equal in a moral sense if not in rational ability. In Gordon S Wood's The American Revolution: A History, he wrote "Jefferson’s affirmation in the Declaration of Independence that all men are created equal was, as he later recalled, simply “the common sense” of the age. By the latter part of the eighteenth century, to be enlightened was to believe in the natural equality of all men. Even those as aristocratic as William Byrd and Governor Francis Fauquier of Virginia conceded that all men, even men of different nations and races, were born equal...". Jefferson doubted the natural intelligence of blacks, but none the less he did believe that they were equal in a moral sense. What do you think he meant? And how has the interpretation of that sentence changed over time?
Posted by Patrick O Rly
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
41187 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 8:46 am to
I think he was referring to natural rights, but was (as you pointed out) hypocritical in it's application.
Posted by Mahootney
Lovin' My German Footprint
Member since Sep 2008
12140 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 8:56 am to
In modern times, it means Equal in opportunity.
Not equal in results.
Posted by Patrick O Rly
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
41187 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 9:01 am to
quote:

In modern times, it means Equal in opportunity.



I don't think you could ever be equal in opportunity.

In theory, "all men are created equal" means equal standing under the law, but we know that not to be the case either. You only need to look at the police to see that the law isn't applied equally to everyone.

The only way it could really make sense is that all men stand equally under judgement of God.
Posted by T1
Dallas, TX
Member since Dec 2006
3060 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 9:02 am to
Actually, they are pushing for equal results now. Should be changed to "All men are created to have equal income in the name of fairness."
Posted by constant cough
Lafayette
Member since Jun 2007
44788 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 9:03 am to
quote:

What did Jefferson mean by "all men are created equal"?



They were revolting against the British Monarchy & Aristocracy. The British had been treating the Colonials as anything but equal. British society was very class structured still is today.
Posted by TOKEN
Member since Feb 2014
11990 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 9:03 am to
Patrick is right on this one.

All equal under gods law.
Posted by BigJim
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2010
15012 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 9:04 am to
quote:

Jefferson meant equal in the eyes of God. Men were equal in a moral sense if not in rational ability


This.
Posted by Antonio Moss
The South
Member since Mar 2006
49327 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 9:12 am to
quote:

Jefferson meant equal in the eyes of God. Men were equal in a moral sense if not in rational ability


Actually, it's even more narrow than that. Jefferson was alluding to hereditary/divine rule due to his opposition to absolute monarchies. "All men are created equal" means that no person has the inherit right to rule over others.

One big issue (addressed in the constitution) with the British Empire was the practice of nobility - or that certain classes superceded law. John Locke (Jefferson's chief inspiration) declared the practice of nobility to be an immoral function of illegitimate government.

The line "all men are created equal" is the fundamental basis of Republicanism - a system of government in which the power of rule is vested in law and not people - making it very different than the other chief systems of government - monarchies, oligarchies, and democracies.

Even John Adams, a super federalist, recognized the important of Republicanism and equality under law. After the Declaration of Independence was drafted and signed, Adams told members of the colonial press that humanity now had "a government of laws, and not of men."
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42130 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 9:13 am to
All men are created equal in the eyes of God, and thus they should all be treated equal under the law.

All men (and women) should enjoy the same basic rights of liberty, happiness, free speech, freedom of religion, etc.

No man is entitled to more than another man just because of his birth status, his family, his race, his religion, etc.

Now none of this means someone can't achieve more, and that those that don't elect to achieve have to be taken care of by the achievers. It just means they all had an equal opportunity and that equal outcomes can not be guaranteed.

Posted by RCDfan1950
United States
Member since Feb 2007
39045 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 9:20 am to
It's obvious that all men ARE NOT equal. From the very point of inception...a genetic die is cast.

Of course, we all realize that both Nature and Nurture ultimately DEFINE an individual's relative value...in they way that the affect the Individual's CHOICES.

I think that Jefferson hoped to establish a form of (future) societal First Principle (all equal) wherein governance did it's best to establish conditions that could affect the Nurture factor, and thereby give ANY person a chance to overcome both the Nature and Nurture factors and rise to the level of their innate potential. Reward according to merit...and not on factors outside of the Individual's control.

Posted by goldennugget
NIL Ruined College Sports
Member since Jul 2013
26376 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 9:23 am to
quote:

In modern times, it means Equal in opportunity.
Not equal in results


Yep modern day leftists have twisted this to mean everyone has equality in income and possessions

"HOW ARE WE A FREE AND EQUAL SOCIETY IF WE HAVE STARVING HOMELESS PEOPLE?!!?"
Posted by mtntiger
Asheville, NC
Member since Oct 2003
29501 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 9:24 am to
quote:

You only need to look at Eric Holder to see that the law isn't applied equally to everyone.


FIFY
Posted by Patrick O Rly
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
41187 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 9:26 am to
Of course. He's in the political class. They're special people.
Posted by RCDfan1950
United States
Member since Feb 2007
39045 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 9:30 am to
quote:

They're special people.
Well, the claim such, PO...in that "you don't muzzle the ox that treads the corn".

I used to get so pissed when plowing my corn with a mule who would keep reaching over and ripping of a healthy stalk of corn about every row. I knew I shouldn't begrudge the animal who was pulling the plow and making a perfectly logical and moral choice. So...I just plowed...FASTER. That helped a lot.

Posted by constant cough
Lafayette
Member since Jun 2007
44788 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 9:31 am to
quote:

Yep modern day leftists have twisted this to mean everyone has equality in income and possessions



That's cause modern day leftists are nothing but yesteryear's communist.
Posted by Antonio Moss
The South
Member since Mar 2006
49327 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 10:14 am to
quote:

That's cause modern day leftists are nothing but yesteryear's communist.


Nope. True communism means the absence of a central authority. Leftists absolutely love have a huge, bloated, overbearing government.

Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
69703 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 10:16 am to
He was always very conflicted about slavery. It clashed with his ideals that all men were created equal, yet he relied on slaves for his fortune. It was something he struggled with internally.
Posted by son of arlo
State of Innocence
Member since Sep 2013
4577 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 10:27 am to
God made men, but Samuel Colt made them equal.
Posted by RCDfan1950
United States
Member since Feb 2007
39045 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 10:29 am to
quote:

God made men, but Samuel Colt made them equal.


Well, Sam helped, SA. But some men can draw faster than others...and think quicker too. 'The quick and the dead'.

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