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re: Will The Gay Marriage Issue Result In Churches...
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:05 pm to TK421
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:05 pm to TK421
quote:
Besides, I asked about the "average" church. The examples you present are anything but average.
Why do you need these beautiful built and designed structures to worship god?
I have seen even the smallest churches just stocked full of decorations I can't think about affording.
Does god get upset if you gather your flock in a park under a tree?
Seems like a lot of church money could be better spent on the flock as opposed to all the trappings for the various religions. And be sure, all religions are guilty of this. They need to be taxed. There is nothing non-profit about any church in this country.
4
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:09 pm to asurob1
quote:
Why do you need these beautiful built and designed structures to worship god?
I have seen even the smallest churches just stocked full of decorations I can't think about affording.
Does god get upset if you gather your flock in a park under a tree?
Seems like a lot of church money could be better spent on the flock as opposed to all the trappings for the various religions. And be sure, all religions are guilty of this. They need to be taxed. There is nothing non-profit about any church in this country.
My church collected about 1.06 million dollars in tithes/offerings this past fiscal year, and its budget was 1.15 million dollars, so it ran a loss.
The expenses are salaries for staff and maintanence, facilities upkeep, utilities, etc.
If you tax a church that means less money for its philanthropy and charity which is a major part of the budget
I understand what you are saying about how churches don't need to spend money on fancy displays and technology and equipment, I get it, but at the same time it helps attract non believers. Regulars are going to attend regardless, but the non believers and those who never attend church, you need to find ways to retain them and get them to come back
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:14 pm to DeltaDoc
quote:
Losing tax exempt status for failure to perform or recognize them?
Yep.
"By the authority vested in me by the State of _____"
Gays - this is a function of the state, the actor cannot discriminate
Church - 1st Amendment
Gays - we're gonna go whine and bitch about this and Uncle Obama's gonna take away tax exempt status.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:15 pm to goldennugget
quote:
My church collected about 1.06 million dollars in tithes/offerings this past fiscal year, and its budget was 1.15 million dollars, so it ran a loss.
Many a business runs at a loss. They still get taxed (and some go out of business).
quote:
Regulars are going to attend regardless, but the non believers and those who never attend church, you need to find ways to retain them and get them to come back
I get the whole witnessing of the Christian church, trying to preach to the non-believers and all that. But do churches get the bang for their buck? I have been to my share over the years and some of the crap they have to make church "entertaining" is beyond ridiculous. And while your church may be operating at a loss...you can be sure many do not. Some of the mormon churches in Arizona are scary in their structures and cost millions to build. To what end? Sure doesn't get anyone closer to god.
Tax em all.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:15 pm to asurob1
quote:
There is nothing non-profit about any church in this country.
Except you have yet to show you have any understanding of the word "profit". Most churches operate either at budget or at a loss.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:15 pm to udtiger
Hopefully so, 90% of churches are just in it for the money anyway.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:17 pm to DeltaDoc
Yes, unless it's a Muslim church...they can do what they want because we're scared of them
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:19 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
Yes, unless it's a Muslim church...they can do what they want because Obama's one of them
FIFY
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:27 pm to DeltaDoc
Also, Churches aren't completely tax exempt.
The money they receive in the form of tithes or offerings are exempt.
Profits from business revenue such as any thing sold such as publications, music, building rental fees, and any profits from investments are still taxed.
Also the IRS is very hands off when it comes to churches and IRS auditors have to get special permission before starting an investigation of a church. Hence why there are a lot of "shady" ministries out there.
The money they receive in the form of tithes or offerings are exempt.
Profits from business revenue such as any thing sold such as publications, music, building rental fees, and any profits from investments are still taxed.
Also the IRS is very hands off when it comes to churches and IRS auditors have to get special permission before starting an investigation of a church. Hence why there are a lot of "shady" ministries out there.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:43 pm to DeltaDoc
quote:
Losing tax exempt status for failure to perform or recognize them?
That will be the first thing they do.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:45 pm to L.A.
quote:
Amen to those photos. Pardon me for waxing religious, but would Jesus even recognize the church of today?
Yes as Laodicean!
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:47 pm to DeltaDoc
Churches shouldn't be tax exempt in the first place
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:47 pm to TejasPete
quote:
Hopefully so, 90% of churches are just in it for the money anyway.
It's super cool man when people make up numbers out of nowhere just for effect!
Posted on 1/20/14 at 3:02 pm to DeltaDoc
Who gives a shite whether a church recognizes your marriage as long as it's recognized by your government at tax time and the hospital recognizes you as next of kin.
And no, churches will not be forced to perform ceremonies that run counter to their beliefs. Ask a divorced catholic if you want to know more.
And no, churches will not be forced to perform ceremonies that run counter to their beliefs. Ask a divorced catholic if you want to know more.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 3:12 pm to TejasPete
quote:
Hopefully so, 90% of churches are just in it for the money anyway.
It always blows my mind how liberals like TejasPete and asurob are so against separation of church and state. I guess it just goes to show that hatred of religion blinds them from their normal espoused beliefs.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 3:12 pm to asurob1
quote:
asurob1
Many a business runs at a loss. They still get taxed (and some go out of business).
I hate to let facts get in the way of an argument, however, I have been in Accounting for 3 decades.. I have yet to see a business pay "Income" taxes on a loss....
Non Profits pay just about every tax any other business pays except for the "Income" tax....
Also... While I have not looked this up recently, I believe the average church in our country only has an attendance of 90 each week in their Sunday Morning service. Just for context...
Here is something regarding average church attendance with links referenced...
The median church in the U.S. has 75 regular participants in worship on Sunday mornings, according to the National Congregations Study (NCS) LINK / . Notice that researchers measured the median church size — the point at which half the churches are smaller and half the churches are larger — rather than the average (186 attenders reported by the USCLS survey LINK ), which is larger due to the influence of very large churches. But while the United States has a large number of very small churches, most people attend larger churches. The National Congregations Study estimated that the smaller churches draw only 11 percent of those who attend worship.
This post was edited on 1/20/14 at 3:17 pm
Posted on 1/20/14 at 3:21 pm to klrstix
I fully expect it, along with courts eventually ruling against a church who refuses to perform gay weddings, or denies a person a job because of their sexual preference.
Sad, sad times.
Sad, sad times.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 4:21 pm to asurob1
quote:
Seems like a lot of church money could be better spent on the flock as opposed to all the trappings for the various religions. And be sure, all religions are guilty of this. They need to be taxed. There is nothing non-profit about any church in this country.
Tell me, how many church budget meetings have you sat in on? Hmm?
I'll wait patiently for your answer.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 4:36 pm to DeltaDoc
No.
The whole "issue" is a boogeyman.
Because of State Actor doctrine, Loving v. Virginia (which struck down state interracial marriage bans) did not affect freedom of churches to refuse to marry whomever they want. Many churches refuse to marry couples for various reasons (cohabitating before marriage, previously divorced, spouses of different religions, etc.) that the state doesn't care about, and some have still continued to refuse interracial marriages without losing tax exempt status.
The whole "issue" is a boogeyman.
Because of State Actor doctrine, Loving v. Virginia (which struck down state interracial marriage bans) did not affect freedom of churches to refuse to marry whomever they want. Many churches refuse to marry couples for various reasons (cohabitating before marriage, previously divorced, spouses of different religions, etc.) that the state doesn't care about, and some have still continued to refuse interracial marriages without losing tax exempt status.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 4:39 pm to DeltaDoc
Serious question, has an all white church ever lost its tax exempt status from refusing to host an interracial or black couple's wedding? I seem to remember a Southern Baptist Church in Mississippi refusing to marry a black couple a few years ago.
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