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re: Spinoff: Meatheads, Please Explain the QB's Have To Win SB's Thing
Posted on 1/13/14 at 8:09 pm to cubsfan5150
Posted on 1/13/14 at 8:09 pm to cubsfan5150
I think you need at least one. If you're an elite QB you need to be able to win the most difficult prize, to truly separate yourself from the rest. It's how our society works. It doesn't make sense to say this guy was the best or elite but to completely ignore the fact he never won one the big one.
I do see your point though. Look at Marino. That's all people say about him now. I respect Marino a lot. Not just for his records and how good he truly was, but at the end there were talks of him going to Minn or TB to try and win one. I think as much as winning one meant, winning one in a Gary Payton-esque way wasn't worth it. Just interesting.
I do see your point though. Look at Marino. That's all people say about him now. I respect Marino a lot. Not just for his records and how good he truly was, but at the end there were talks of him going to Minn or TB to try and win one. I think as much as winning one meant, winning one in a Gary Payton-esque way wasn't worth it. Just interesting.
1
Posted on 1/13/14 at 8:11 pm to Patrick_Bateman
quote:You're seriously underestimating the importance of a great basketball player.
You must be joking.
Posted on 1/13/14 at 8:12 pm to Akit1
quote:that doesn't make it right.
It's how our society works
Our society loves the Kardashians. That's just the way it works. That doesn't make it any less ridiculous that the Kardashians are insanely famous
Posted on 1/13/14 at 8:15 pm to cubsfan5150
quote:
I do not agree that he choked vs Baltimore last year though. He had the game won and the D went bonehead and allowed the Ravens to tie the game on a play that should NEVER happen.
Oh yea I agree. But, that play was to tie. It was a horrible play, and should never have happened. But it did. And it wasnt game winner. Manning had the ball in OT, and made a mistake and threw the ball when he shouldnt have. And that ended up costing them the game. And thats what a lot of people remember.
Its crap. But its the nature that comes with playing QB.
Posted on 1/13/14 at 8:15 pm to Patrick_Bateman
quote:
You must be joking.
Again, it's my opinion, but a great football team can win a SB with several NFL QB's. Even a great basketball team, normally needs a very dominant player.
Take, LeBron, MJ, Kobe, shaq, or Magic off of their teams and they don't win long term.
As far as ERA goes, go check out ERA+ and several other sabermetric stats and you'll see.
This post was edited on 1/13/14 at 8:41 pm
Posted on 1/13/14 at 8:16 pm to shel311
quote:What, like Melo to the Knicks?. . .
You're seriously underestimating the importance of a great basketball player.
ETA: I hate anecdotes too. Disregard the above comment.
Anyways, I see your point. Just disagree.
This post was edited on 1/13/14 at 8:21 pm
Posted on 1/13/14 at 8:20 pm to Patrick_Bateman
quote:Flacco? Eli? Dilfer? Shall I go on?
What, like Melo to the Knicks?. . .
Oh, and Melo great?
Posted on 1/13/14 at 8:25 pm to shel311
quote:You're missing my point. I'm not saying a great team has to have a great QB, by default. I'm saying a great QB has a bigger impact on team performance than a great individual basketball player. I stand by that.
Flacco? Eli? Dilfer? Shall I go on?
quote:Not the best example, granted. I was trying to think of a similar situation to Manning going to the Broncos, and I couldn't think of any so-called great BB players who have had a huge impact on team performance. Which happens to further illustrate my point.
Oh, and Melo great?
ETA: And it's easy to say Melo isn't great now. But most everyone was singing a different tune when he originally went to the Knicks.
This post was edited on 1/13/14 at 8:35 pm
Posted on 1/13/14 at 8:32 pm to dukke v
quote:
He took advantage of a great D
A topic you are familiar with. How many great Ds have you taken advantage if peej?
Posted on 1/13/14 at 8:35 pm to Patrick_Bateman
quote:We'll have to agree to disagree. To be honest, I was more disagreeing with how you answered it like it was a crazy thing to think, thats why I said you're underestimating the importance of a great basketball player.
You're missing my point. I'm not saying a great team has to have a great QB, by default. I'm saying a great QB has a bigger impact on team performance than a great individual basketball player. I stand by that.
quote:I think my best source of proof is that you can find top 5 QBs(Brees as the best example probably as a top 3 QB) that miss the playoffs entirely or have a losing record.
Not the best example, granted. I was trying to think of a similar situation to Manning going to the Broncos, and I couldn't think of another so-called great BB player who had had a huge impact on team performance. Which happens to further illustrates my point.
Think of the top 3-5 NBA players. They're not missing the playoffs or having losing records. They're going to be on top 10 teams in the NBA, just thinking off the top of my head.
Posted on 1/13/14 at 8:40 pm to shel311
quote:Well, sure. More than half of all NBA teams make the playoffs each year. . .
Think of the top 3-5 NBA players. They're not missing the playoffs or having losing records.
quote:Sure, just as all top NFL QBs are going to be on top NFL teams. The difference IMO is that a great QB can single-handedly make the difference between a team winning or losing. That may or may not be the case for a great basketball player (depending on the team, and depending on the player). If you put Peyton Manning on any team in the NFL, that team would become a SuperBowl contender. If you put Lebron James on any team in the NBA, they may or may not be title contenders.
They're going to be on top 10 teams in the NBA, just thinking off the top of my head.
This post was edited on 1/13/14 at 8:42 pm
Posted on 1/13/14 at 8:51 pm to Patrick_Bateman
Any team with LeBron is a title contender. See Cleveland.
Basketball players affect both ends of the floor, but when a QB helps put up 35-45 points, it's the defenses fault 99% of the time when a football team loses. .
Basketball players affect both ends of the floor, but when a QB helps put up 35-45 points, it's the defenses fault 99% of the time when a football team loses. .
Posted on 1/13/14 at 8:51 pm to cubsfan5150
quote:
Again, explain why SB wins is even relevant.
The fact that you have to ask this question says a lot about you
Posted on 1/13/14 at 8:54 pm to cubsfan5150
quote:
As I previously stated, are you the same people that still think that Wins and ERA in baseball are the greatest measure of a good/great pitcher?
You were doing great before this line.
Posted on 1/13/14 at 8:56 pm to FightinTigersDammit
Go check out FIP, ERA+ and several other stats. ERA is not a great measuring tool.
Posted on 1/13/14 at 8:58 pm to jg8623
What's it say? That I'm not simplistic and know that Elway was a great QB and just because he won two SB's thanks to finally getting a running game, those two SB's didn't make him a better QB.
Was he better at 36 y/o or whatever than he was at 27 y/o?
Was he better at 36 y/o or whatever than he was at 27 y/o?
Posted on 1/13/14 at 8:58 pm to cubsfan5150
Maybe. maybe not. Just not relevant to the QB argument.
Posted on 1/13/14 at 9:01 pm to cubsfan5150
quote:
Please explain why it's so important.
Its one of many factors, but before you jump to the conclusion that "everyone" only looks at that, ask yourself why Aikman isn't frequently mentioned in the GOAT conversation "everyone" has. I rarely, if ever, hear his name... Yet he has 3 rings. If your premise were true, he'd be in the conversation...LIGHT years ahead of Manning. But he's not.
His lack of being in the GOAT conversation is consistent with your point, but inconsistent with what you claim others are doing.
So I know what you're saying, but your premise is flawed.
Posted on 1/13/14 at 9:01 pm to FightinTigersDammit
It's just an assumption that the same people that put stock in SB's which are not a measure of a QB's ability, are the same ones that think that wins/ERA are a direct reflection of a pitcher.
Posted on 1/13/14 at 9:06 pm to DaGarun
I do think there's a bit of a shift away from the SB way of thinking, as when I was a kid, I was led to believe that Bradshaw was a great QB, one of the all-time greats actually, whereas you never here that anymore. Bradshaw was a good QB in a league not like today's.
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