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Started By
Message
re: Supporters of Obamacare: Are there no free market solutions to Healthcare?
Posted on 1/12/14 at 11:44 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Posted on 1/12/14 at 11:44 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
which ultimately boils down to health care companies squeezing every last dollar they can out of the average joe,
who do you think funds health care? not "the average joe" (at least not directly)
they squeeze every last dollar they can out of insurance companies and the fed government (well states too, with medicaid)
and if you mean "health care companies" to mean insurance companies, their rates are based off of government rates
1
Posted on 1/12/14 at 11:45 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
they squeeze every last dollar they can out of insurance companies and the fed government
and those two entities are funded by who?
Posted on 1/12/14 at 11:47 pm to Vegas Bengal
quote:
The individual mandate cannot be upheld as an exercise of Congress's power under the Commerce Clause...That Clause authorizes Congress to regulate interstate commerce, not to order individuals to engage in it. In this case, however, it is reasonable to construe what Congress has done as increasing taxes on those who have a certain amount of income, but choose to go without health insurance. Such legislation is within Congress's power to tax.
Quote from HuffPo
Posted on 1/12/14 at 11:50 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
and those two entities are funded by who?
borrowing...and rich people
but you can't argue that they're "screwing over the working man" when they're dealing with the government and insurance companies
if you want to "go there" then i can ask who comprises companies? people
Posted on 1/12/14 at 11:51 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:Nope. Not all. They are trying to squeeze every last dollar they can out of the customers (who aren't even the patients!) that actually pay so they can cover the ones that don't.
real issue which ultimately boils down to health care companies squeezing every last dollar they can out of the average joe, social and economic consequences be damned.
It's no different than the strategy of "tax the rich", social and economic consequences be damned.
This post was edited on 1/12/14 at 11:52 pm
Posted on 1/12/14 at 11:51 pm to SlowFlowPro
What you just posted doesn't support your position.
I've said over and over that it was upheld on the power of Congress to tax and you just confirmed what I've said
I've said over and over that it was upheld on the power of Congress to tax and you just confirmed what I've said
Posted on 1/12/14 at 11:52 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
but you can't argue that they're "screwing over the working man" when they're dealing with the government and insurance companies
i can't think of an entity that has been worse for the working class than insurance companies or the federal government. They are only getting closer and closer post Citizens United.
Posted on 1/12/14 at 11:52 pm to Vegas Bengal
quote:
What you just posted doesn't support your position.
my position that the individual mandate was not proper under ICC power? the quote states that directly
can you show me where the remainder of the law (except for the medicaid stuff) did not fall under ICC?
This post was edited on 1/12/14 at 11:53 pm
Posted on 1/12/14 at 11:53 pm to SlowFlowPro
Obama states that the individual mandate is not a tax in interview the George Stephanopoulos in 2009 ABC interview:
STEPHANOPOULOS: That may be, but it’s still a tax increase.
OBAMA: No. That’s not true, George. The — for us to say that you’ve got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase. What it’s saying is, is that we’re not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore than the fact that right now everybody in America, just about, has to get auto insurance. Nobody considers that a tax increase. People say to themselves, that is a fair way to make sure that if you hit my car, that I’m not covering all the costs.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But it may be fair, it may be good public policy…
OBAMA: No, but — but, George, you — you can’t just make up that language and decide that that’s called a tax increase.
ETA - SlowFlowPro, you just edited your original post after claiming that the ACA was justifiable in the eyes of the Supreme Court because it was
"obviously" a tax increase.
STEPHANOPOULOS: That may be, but it’s still a tax increase.
OBAMA: No. That’s not true, George. The — for us to say that you’ve got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase. What it’s saying is, is that we’re not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore than the fact that right now everybody in America, just about, has to get auto insurance. Nobody considers that a tax increase. People say to themselves, that is a fair way to make sure that if you hit my car, that I’m not covering all the costs.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But it may be fair, it may be good public policy…
OBAMA: No, but — but, George, you — you can’t just make up that language and decide that that’s called a tax increase.
ETA - SlowFlowPro, you just edited your original post after claiming that the ACA was justifiable in the eyes of the Supreme Court because it was
"obviously" a tax increase.
This post was edited on 1/12/14 at 11:56 pm
Posted on 1/12/14 at 11:57 pm to SlowFlowPro
It's a silly argument. If the federal government can enforce a mandate that an insurance company provide specific coverages and services, they can clearly regulate torts specific to those coverages and services. Good grief.
Posted on 1/13/14 at 12:01 am to Taxing Authority
fedgov has been able to regulate activities that don't involve crossing state lines since the new deal...i fail to see how the practice of law somehow doesn't involve activity that crosses state lines
and it isn't a state-licensing issue. how many other servcies that are licensed by states fall under federal regs too? doctors, pharmacists, accountants, etc.
and it isn't a state-licensing issue. how many other servcies that are licensed by states fall under federal regs too? doctors, pharmacists, accountants, etc.
Posted on 1/13/14 at 6:54 am to Powerman
quote:Actually, no, I wouldn't agree.
So you agree that the insurance system absent of government is still not really a free market system?
Your rhetorical leaves me suspicious you have no idea how heavily our government is involved in healthcare, or the nature of its involvement.
Posted on 1/13/14 at 8:25 am to Roaad
Obamacare is a free market solution.
Opponents of Obamacare fail to understand what it even is.
Opponents of Obamacare fail to understand what it even is.
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