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re: Budget comparisons between St George & other Louisiana cities
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:00 pm to Asgard Device
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:00 pm to Asgard Device
quote:That's right. See my Lafayette Parish comments.
Because it's a combined city + parish budget + regional grants/programs?
I'm assuming that's why Russian chose independent cities as an apples to apples comparison with St George.
I tried to compare SG with cities within EBR and cities outside of EBR of a comparable population as the SG proposal. No independent city in La. has an identical population so I chose the ones which were closest.
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Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:00 pm to NorthEnd
quote:
Russian--since we disagree on the revenue, answer me this--what specifically will cost StG residents more if they incorporate? In other words--we will we need to pay for that we don't already pay for?
Police Force
Mayor and Mayor's Office
City Hall
City Attorney (civil and criminal)
City Court System
City council
That's a start
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:02 pm to LSURussian
quote:
Of course they do, but they pay 6.22 mills LESS in property taxes to the general fund than property owners inside the city limits.
So what? We pay don't we and we don't get all the services city dwellers do so we shouldn't pay as much.
quote:
No, we don't. No one does. The garbage collection service is paid via a monthly fee included with the water bill. It is not a property tax.
I stand corrected, but my point is we pay for garbage services and it's all operated by DPW and like the sewer it is a parish wide system not a city only system. Garbage services would continue just as it continued in Central.
And FWIW, I ran a comp on Central City, their budget is $185.63 per capita. That stat like your other stat is meaningless, but Central will be closer to St. George than Lake Charles is.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:02 pm to dewster
Seems like vouchers for schools would have stopped all of this.
People want school choice.
People want school choice.
quote:
Incorporating the city of St. George was not the original intention of our grassroots group. Originally, we were attempting to provide local schools for local children through the creation of an independent school district in the southern part of the parish.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:04 pm to BR Tiger
quote:
All that said, this topic is way more complex than simply looking at per-capita or per-square mile spending of cities. there are too many variables, especially considering the number of parish services utilized by the St George area which would ostensibly continue to be utilized in the same way resulting in no new liability for the new city.
Bingo, the entire financial situation is very complex and without a lot of information as to exactly what would happen if St. George becomes a city, it would be wise for anyone to investigate for themselves.
But I do think Central would be a good place to start nosing around since 10 years ago Central was like St. George is now except Central isn't nearly as big or as productive.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:04 pm to BR Tiger
quote:I welcome anyone else's analysis.
All that said, this topic is way more complex than simply looking at per-capita or per-square mile spending of cities. there are too many variables
I've been repeatedly told on this board that when I said I thought the SG budget proposal was out of line with other cities that I was pulling numbers "out of your arse."
So I put together actual numbers. If anyone wants to adjust the numbers based on solid data, I'm all for it.
I don't mind letting someone else spend their time doing it.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:10 pm to doubleb
quote:Central is miniscule compared to SG. It is also still developing its services. In case you forgot, Central just voted to extend what was supposed to be a temporary property tax last November (two months ago).
Central was like St. George is now except Central isn't nearly as big or as productive.
They are now considering asking the voters to pass an additional property tax so that they can build a city hall/municipal complex.
Currently they are renting an office in a retail strip mall for their mayor and city council offices. The council meeting room is too small for some public hearing meetings.
There are also rumblings that they need their own police department and not just rely on the sheriff's department.
All of that has been reported in the paper over the past few months.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:14 pm to LSURussian
quote:
I've been repeatedly told on this board that when I said I thought the SG budget proposal was out of line with other cities that I was pulling numbers "out of your arse."
We've been agreement on this issue. I completely understand St. G's reasons for wanting to incorporate but supporters are completely naive if they think it won't cost them.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:20 pm to LSURussian
I did say Central wasn't as big, but it also isn't as productive.
One study that is official and that did catch my eye was done by the city.
It was reported that if St. George went on their own it would leave the Metro govt. 52 million dollars short of what they needed.
My public education in EBR Parish and at LSU leads me to believe that St. George's problem wouldn't be financial. We'd have more money than we would need because I know what we are getting now, and if the metro govt. came up short 52 million we would have that to spend plus what the metro govt. spends on us in the first place.
I don't know that for sure, but I suspect that would be the case.
Now on the other hand, I'm not stupid either. The St. George organizers say the number isn't 52 million it's 14 million. If they are right, they make me less likely to vote their way. That could be a financial problem.
So Russian, instead of trying to poo poo St. George's numbers you should be embracing them. If St. George leaving is only going to cost the metro govt. 14 million, then that IMHO is a problem.
One study that is official and that did catch my eye was done by the city.
It was reported that if St. George went on their own it would leave the Metro govt. 52 million dollars short of what they needed.
My public education in EBR Parish and at LSU leads me to believe that St. George's problem wouldn't be financial. We'd have more money than we would need because I know what we are getting now, and if the metro govt. came up short 52 million we would have that to spend plus what the metro govt. spends on us in the first place.
I don't know that for sure, but I suspect that would be the case.
Now on the other hand, I'm not stupid either. The St. George organizers say the number isn't 52 million it's 14 million. If they are right, they make me less likely to vote their way. That could be a financial problem.
So Russian, instead of trying to poo poo St. George's numbers you should be embracing them. If St. George leaving is only going to cost the metro govt. 14 million, then that IMHO is a problem.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:21 pm to dewster
Wouldn't it make sense to get a talley of how legislators will vote on the new school district, before doing all this?
The claim is that incorporation is the path to getting a new school district but there's zero evidence other than the St George politicians say so.
What will the vote be with and without incorporation and WHO will change their minds?
The claim is that incorporation is the path to getting a new school district but there's zero evidence other than the St George politicians say so.
What will the vote be with and without incorporation and WHO will change their minds?
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:22 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:This makes sense and explains a lot for me.
That's because St. George already has fire districts which are supported by property taxes we pay. The city of St. George wouldn't be in the fire business just like EBR Parish isn't now in the rural areas.
The same thing applies to sewerage. We pay a sewer fee to support the sewer system that is a parish wide system. We would continue to support the system just as we are now.
Our garbage pick up is paid fopr by property taxes also. That would continue as is and the city of St. George wouldn't be in the garbage business.
quote:This seems to all be covered in the proposed SG budget. Should I not trust their numbers regarding these items. I assume police force means the one salary for the SG police chief.
Police Force
Mayor and Mayor's Office
City Hall
City Attorney (civil and criminal)
City Court System
City council
That's a start
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:24 pm to sec13rowBBseat28
quote:
police force means the one salary for the SG police chief
Why bother? Seems like government waste just to get a local political figure a pay check.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:30 pm to Asgard Device
quote:
Why bother? Seems like government waste just to get a local political figure a pay check.
It is mandated by law.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:30 pm to Asgard Device
quote:Just curious, but are there any other cities in LA they don't have their own ISD?
Wouldn't it make sense to get a talley of how legislators will vote on the new school district, before doing all this?
The claim is that incorporation is the path to getting a new school district but there's zero evidence other than the St George politicians say so.
What will the vote be with and without incorporation and WHO will change their minds?
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:31 pm to Asgard Device
quote:
Wouldn't it make sense to get a talley of how legislators will vote on the new school district, before doing all this? The claim is that incorporation is the path to getting a new school district but there's zero evidence other than the St George politicians say so. What will the vote be with and without incorporation and WHO will change their minds?
That would be a good idea
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:32 pm to Asgard Device
quote:
Why bother? Seems like government waste just to get a local political figure a pay check.
Mainly because it's a statutorily required office. In Louisiana you can't have an incorporated city without a police chief.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:32 pm to Asgard Device
Police Chief is not gov't waste. You want gov't waste -- take a look at the $19 million down town library that will be used by very few residents. Just imagine much more efficiently that amount of money could have been spent on basic gov't services.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:36 pm to BR Tiger
quote:
Mainly because it's a statutorily required office. In Louisiana you can't have an incorporated city without a police chief.
I was talking about the pay check. I didn't realize that a salary was required.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:39 pm to tdg
quote:
You want gov't waste -- take a look at the $19 million down town library that will be used by very few residents. Just imagine much more efficiently that amount of money could have been spent on basic gov't services.
Technically that money could only be spent on the library system so they'd either need to build the monstrosity in your neck of the woods, or keep carrying it forward.
Will St George create their own library system?
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:40 pm to Asgard Device
quote:I hope the hell not.
Will St George create their own library system?
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