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re: NFL "Late Round" Rookie Salary Differences: 2008 to 2013
Posted on 1/4/14 at 1:39 pm to OceanMan
Posted on 1/4/14 at 1:39 pm to OceanMan
quote:
Don't try and tell me rounds 5-7 is just teams picking the most physically gifted and seeing how they turn out.
hell that's rounds 1-7 for the most part
why do you think russell wilson slid so far?
This post was edited on 1/4/14 at 1:40 pm
Posted on 1/4/14 at 1:41 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i don't disagree, but i'm just saying that has nothing to do with the new CBA (as the myth states)
Analyze the difference in contracts of 2nd and 3rd rounders from 2008 to today.
That is what has changed.
The players aren't coming back because they aren't gaining anything by going from 5th/6th rounder to a 3rd rounder.
It's not that difficult to understand, unless you aren't trying to understand, and just trying to frame this as a knock against Les Miles.
quote:
i think there are a few reasons
1. 1/9/12 and all the drama from that night
quote:
3. i think LSU is being sold/promoted as a "3 year stop" to recruits more than other schools. this is the complete 180 from what miles was praised for when he first got here, but c'est la vie
Oh, right.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 1:42 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
Analyze the difference in contracts of 2nd and 3rd rounders from 2008 to today.
this has no effect on the players this thread is discussing
this thread is discussing guys who are late round picks, regardless.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 1:43 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Perhaps. But, the assumption that a kid who thinks he's NFL good would somehow be unaware that he could leave early regardless of where he went just because some other school didn't talk about it seems pretty out there too.
your assumption here is pretty wrong
What would our recruiter say exactly? "Hey man, I know that those other guys are telling you how great their program is but you need to come play for us because we have all these kids leaving early for the NFL?"
Is there any kid alive who would be swayed by that given that even if Saban never mentioned the NFL once, they would know they could do the same there? Or anywhere really?
And, I'm sorry. The bulk of the kids obviously care about winning or most 5 star kids would go do mid-tier schools so they could start early and get to the NFL fast. Are there some that don't? Yeah. But again, they still can go anywhere and leave early. LSU isn't somehow special in this area even if they talked about it non-stop.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 1:45 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i could have said 5...PP7 was the first major guy to leave early since jamarcus (who left when mlies was celebrated for his ability to keep guys)
As the #1 pick in the NFL Draft. I know, details, details.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 1:46 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
As the #1 pick in the NFL Draft. I know, details, details.
nobody criticized JR. you missed the point. he was the complete outlier at the time. in those days, he was the only one who left early and this was a foundational point of support for Miles' fans
things changed with PP7
Posted on 1/4/14 at 1:48 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
hell that's rounds 1-7 for the most part
why do you think russell wilson slid so far?
What do you even mean by this? Are you saying he isn't physically talented?
He slid "so far" (drafted in middle of 3rd round, 5th QB taken) because it was a draft loaded at QB. That is my point,you want to be better at your relative position, that is who you are competing against, not every other player in the draft.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 1:48 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
The players aren't coming back because they aren't gaining anything by going from 5th/6th rounder to a 3rd rounder.
That is it in a nutshell. I think what SFP is saying is why is this rationale occurring now when it hasn't been a trend in the past.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 1:48 pm to SlowFlowPro
The 1st and 2nd rounders don't make near what they did a few years ago. A junior who is a 4/5th round projection doesn't see value in coming back when the best case scenario is him improving his stock and making another 1-200k his first few years. This isn't about what they pay the late round guys, it's the caps on the 1st rounders salaries.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 1:49 pm to SettleDown
quote:
What would our recruiter say exactly? "Hey man, I know that those other guys are telling you how great their program is but you need to come play for us because we have all these kids leaving early for the NFL?"
it's kind of how coaches sell early playing time. within that sales pitch is an implicit admission that, AT THE LEAST, that area of the team is bad. this pitch is made EVERY year to top guys (at LSU and elsewhere)
Posted on 1/4/14 at 1:49 pm to Chris Farley
quote:
The 1st and 2nd rounders don't make near what they did a few years ago. A junior who is a 4/5th round projection doesn't see value in coming back when the best case scenario is him improving his stock and making another 1-200k his first few years. This isn't about what they pay the late round guys, it's the caps on the 1st rounders salaries.
Bingo. Capping the top rounds got rid of the carrot.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 1:49 pm to SlowFlowPro
Personally, I think the reason LSU has had so many recently is, well, because they have.
It can happen and, moreover, sometimes stuff like this can be contagious. I doubt it's anything more than that and we'll regress to the mean.
Sure, it's a pain in the arse, but, I just don't see it as likely that somehow, every year, LSU will have far more leave early than every other school. Get back to me in 2-3 years on this one.
It can happen and, moreover, sometimes stuff like this can be contagious. I doubt it's anything more than that and we'll regress to the mean.
Sure, it's a pain in the arse, but, I just don't see it as likely that somehow, every year, LSU will have far more leave early than every other school. Get back to me in 2-3 years on this one.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 1:50 pm to OceanMan
quote:
Are you saying he isn't physically talented?
he is short. that's literally the ONLY reason he fell so far. physical limitations
Posted on 1/4/14 at 1:51 pm to lynxcat
quote:
Capping the top rounds got rid of the carrot.
there wasn't really a carrot for guys who were draft eligible and were late round picks. it would take an outlier scenario to improve a stock that much. trai turner, tharold simon, spencer ware, chris faulk, etc weren't making that jump. the carrot never existed.
This post was edited on 1/4/14 at 1:52 pm
Posted on 1/4/14 at 1:55 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
he is short. that's literally the ONLY reason he fell so far. physical limitations
Andrew Luck and RG3 had nothing to do with it huh?
You trying to say these kids were all measurables?
ETA: He was drafted in the 3rd round by a solid team, who had JUST signed a QB with a decent size contract. They obviously thought enough of him to use an earlier pick and gave him a chance for the starting job.
This post was edited on 1/4/14 at 1:57 pm
Posted on 1/4/14 at 1:58 pm to OceanMan
quote:
Andrew Luck and RG3 had nothing to do with it huh?
there was almost 100 picks between those guys and russell wilson
there were other QBs drafted between those 2 and russell wilson...3 to be exact (tannehill, brandon weedon, and osweiler)
seattle picked twice before they picked wilson
russell wilson wasn't even the first fricking wilson drafted
This post was edited on 1/4/14 at 1:59 pm
Posted on 1/4/14 at 1:59 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
there wasn't really a carrot for guys who were draft eligible and were late round picks. it would take an outlier scenario to improve a stock that much. trai turner, tharold simon, spencer ware, chris faulk, etc weren't making that jump. the carrot never existed.
This conversation is getting mixed and the player groups need to be separated to make any sense.
The "carrot" matters for a guy that is a 3rd rounder. It doesn't matter for a 6th rounder leaving early.
For the late round guys, are 4th rounders now making similar to 4th rounders of old? Are 6th rounders making similar to 6th rounders of old?
I also don't have a problem with players realizing that careers are short and a change of mindset occurring that getting paid earlier doesn't cost them much.
There are a ton of factors here. The economy went to shite in 09, new player agreement and continued increase in information availability.
If I was a 5th rounder and didn't care about the education or college experience component, then it would make sense to entertain leaving early. 5th rounders probably won't jump any higher than 3rd or 4th in a best case scenario and it is one less year that their body has to take a beating for no pay.
This post was edited on 1/4/14 at 2:01 pm
Posted on 1/4/14 at 2:00 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
seattle picked twice before they picked wilson
russell wilson wasn't even the first fricking wilson drafted
Matt Flynn, and not funny or a coincidence.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 2:01 pm to lynxcat
quote:shite, even if you consider education important. The amount you'll make if you make a roster for even a bit will easily pay for another year of school.
If I was a 5th rounder and didn't care about the education or college experience component,
Posted on 1/4/14 at 2:01 pm to OceanMan
if seattle knew now what they knew then (only in terms of how he'd be as an NFL QB), and they were the only team to know this future, would he last until their 3rd pick? no
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