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re: LOTR Eagles
Posted on 10/27/13 at 5:02 pm to TigerMyth36
Posted on 10/27/13 at 5:02 pm to TigerMyth36
Why would the eagles involve themselves without the push from Gandalf?
They never involved themselves unless he was in eminent danger.
Perhaps gandalf knew they would do nothing unless the resistance was at its last stand.
They had no loyalty to anyone but Gandalf it is shown. That loyalty is given because Gandalf doesn't involve them and risk their survival unless nothing else is apparent.
They never involved themselves unless he was in eminent danger.
Perhaps gandalf knew they would do nothing unless the resistance was at its last stand.
They had no loyalty to anyone but Gandalf it is shown. That loyalty is given because Gandalf doesn't involve them and risk their survival unless nothing else is apparent.
1
Posted on 10/27/13 at 5:05 pm to Wild Thang
None of that explains them at the Battle of 5 Armies.
I never said they would come without Gandalf calling them but given that they showed up the 2 other times called, there is no reason whatsoever to believe they would not help give aid in the battle against Sauron.
I never said they would come without Gandalf calling them but given that they showed up the 2 other times called, there is no reason whatsoever to believe they would not help give aid in the battle against Sauron.
Posted on 10/27/13 at 5:07 pm to TigerMyth36
Was Gandalf and his allies not in imminent danger at the 5 army battle?
It's been a long time since I read the Hobbit FWIW
It's been a long time since I read the Hobbit FWIW
Posted on 10/27/13 at 5:10 pm to Wild Thang
They were in imminent danger the whole trip to Mt Doom. 
By the way, what would be the worst thing that could happen if he called them and they said they were busy?
They aided Gandalf 3 times in the series so there really isn't any reason to think they would not be interested in the fight against Sauron if they were interested in the fight over a giant pile of wealth.
By the way, what would be the worst thing that could happen if he called them and they said they were busy?
They aided Gandalf 3 times in the series so there really isn't any reason to think they would not be interested in the fight against Sauron if they were interested in the fight over a giant pile of wealth.
Posted on 10/27/13 at 5:12 pm to ZacAttack
quote:
Sauron would have immediately sensed the ring if they had just flown it in on the eagles.
Well they walked right in the backdoor and he didn't notice.
Posted on 10/27/13 at 5:17 pm to TigerMyth36
You are missing the point.
Gandalf had their trust because he never put them in harms way unless there was no other option.
If he could fix things without them he would.
The eagles really could be considered angels honestly.
Only used as a last resort. And considering Tolkien's religious tilt to the story, it makes sense.
Gandalf was to use the regular people to get this done. If it looked like it wouldn't work, the eagles (angels) come in to wreck shop.
It isn't a hard concept to understand
Gandalf had their trust because he never put them in harms way unless there was no other option.
If he could fix things without them he would.
The eagles really could be considered angels honestly.
Only used as a last resort. And considering Tolkien's religious tilt to the story, it makes sense.
Gandalf was to use the regular people to get this done. If it looked like it wouldn't work, the eagles (angels) come in to wreck shop.
It isn't a hard concept to understand
Posted on 10/27/13 at 5:19 pm to Spur
quote:
Well they walked right in the backdoor and he didn't notice.
Not only that. If the Eagles flew directly to doom, nothing Sauron could do.
The Nazgul would most probably have still been trekking back to Mordor after having their steeds killed.
Posted on 10/27/13 at 5:22 pm to Wild Thang
And it is an even easier concept to understand that the WHOLE WORLD was in peril. He would not have worried about Eagle peril.
He didn't mind getting them involved in the Battle of 5 armies.
You keep making suppositions based on NO previous evidence. I however point to real evidence of their aid in the past over much less pressing event and you act like I am the one that can't understand a simple concept when clearly it is you.
He didn't mind getting them involved in the Battle of 5 armies.
You keep making suppositions based on NO previous evidence. I however point to real evidence of their aid in the past over much less pressing event and you act like I am the one that can't understand a simple concept when clearly it is you.
Posted on 10/27/13 at 5:25 pm to TigerMyth36
quote:
Gandalf had no idea Frodo wouldn't be able to toss the ring into the pit of doom thus he wouldn't care how Frodo got to Mt Doom as long as he was able to get there. Gollum is a moot point because Gandalf had no clue how he would fit in the puzzle. It isn't like Gandalf thought to himself that the Eagles sure could make this an easier journey but I want Frodo to struggle for a year to learn Gollum's place.
I'm pretty sure Gandalf did say early on (in Moria I think) that he sensed that Gollum had a part to play. He couldn't see exactly what it was of course. I think Gandalf acted a lot on faith through the whole story. He is painted as a religious type figure who acted in accordance with feelings he did not always understand but felt powerfully.
Posted on 10/27/13 at 5:26 pm to Methuselah
As I said, he didn't know where he fit in the puzzle.
You can't leave out the second part.
It isn't like Gandalf thought to himself that the Eagles sure could make this an easier journey but I want Frodo to struggle for a year to learn Gollum's place.
You can't leave out the second part.
It isn't like Gandalf thought to himself that the Eagles sure could make this an easier journey but I want Frodo to struggle for a year to learn Gollum's place.
Posted on 10/27/13 at 5:29 pm to TigerMyth36
You are missing the Christian overture that Tolkien is using.
Gandalf could be considered as a 'Moses' I suppose. Or even better some strong prophet.
Frodo is the human touched by God to handle the horrible burden.
It's always God's will for the people on Earth to handle the tough shite.
Now, if these anointed people, such as Gandalf and Frodo, are doing everything they can, yet the tide is about to turn against the evil they are combating, what does God do?
He sends in some angels to turn the tide. Hence, why the Eagles show when they do.
Are you not aware of the Christian theme of LOTR?
Gandalf could be considered as a 'Moses' I suppose. Or even better some strong prophet.
Frodo is the human touched by God to handle the horrible burden.
It's always God's will for the people on Earth to handle the tough shite.
Now, if these anointed people, such as Gandalf and Frodo, are doing everything they can, yet the tide is about to turn against the evil they are combating, what does God do?
He sends in some angels to turn the tide. Hence, why the Eagles show when they do.
Are you not aware of the Christian theme of LOTR?
Posted on 10/27/13 at 5:32 pm to Wild Thang
quote:
He sends in some angels to turn the tide. Hence, why the Eagles show when they do.
I've only mentioned the deus ex machina device about 4 other times. I am well aware of the spiritual ovetones.
I've also stated countless times that I understand why they weren't used.
The problem with using them at all makes it silly when they aren't used.
This post was edited on 10/27/13 at 5:34 pm
Posted on 10/27/13 at 5:38 pm to TigerMyth36
Well, you are being obtuse. If you understand the spiritual purpose the author is using, it makes no sense to question why the eagles showed when they did.
Them taking Frodo contradicts the struggle Frodo(human) had to go through to defeat Sauron(evil).
It seems you are arguing for the sake of arguing.
I don't feel you are this stupid to be honest.
Them taking Frodo contradicts the struggle Frodo(human) had to go through to defeat Sauron(evil).
It seems you are arguing for the sake of arguing.
I don't feel you are this stupid to be honest.
Posted on 10/27/13 at 5:38 pm to TigerMyth36
Good debate.
Tomorrow we can fight over how silly it was to build a death star which could easily be blown to pieces with one shot on an exhaust duct.
Tomorrow we can fight over how silly it was to build a death star which could easily be blown to pieces with one shot on an exhaust duct.
Posted on 10/27/13 at 5:43 pm to TigerMyth36
Why hasn't an
Yone suggested that the eagles, like every other being in Middle Earth would have been consumed and corrupted by the power of the ring.
It's doubtful they would have taken part in something like this.
Yone suggested that the eagles, like every other being in Middle Earth would have been consumed and corrupted by the power of the ring.
It's doubtful they would have taken part in something like this.
Posted on 10/27/13 at 5:45 pm to TigerMyth36
It would also seem they could have just had Tom Bombadil make the ring disappear, or sent it with the elves to the far shores, or maybe Beorn could have turned into an eagle and flown it over Mt. Doom himself.
I always thought Gandalf was more of an advisor and only got involved when shite was really going downhill. He could never really solve their problems for them, like he didn't just go and throw down with Smaug in the hobbit, but he could save their arse if they really got in a bind, like the trolls or saving Faramir from the Nazguls.
ETA: Damn yall beat me to it
I always thought Gandalf was more of an advisor and only got involved when shite was really going downhill. He could never really solve their problems for them, like he didn't just go and throw down with Smaug in the hobbit, but he could save their arse if they really got in a bind, like the trolls or saving Faramir from the Nazguls.
ETA: Damn yall beat me to it
This post was edited on 10/27/13 at 5:48 pm
Posted on 10/27/13 at 5:47 pm to TigerMyth36
Myth,
Do you not understand why Tolkien would not have the eagles just trot Frodo to the mountain?
There is no debate if you have ever read the bible.
Tolkien's story is a religious story. God only shows himself if the anointed person has fought at all costs for good.
It was time for the eagles( angels ) to come in and help the near destruction of Frodo.
The entire story is Religious.
From what I have read, CW Lewis and Tolkien were either friends or associated.
Do you not understand why Tolkien would not have the eagles just trot Frodo to the mountain?
There is no debate if you have ever read the bible.
Tolkien's story is a religious story. God only shows himself if the anointed person has fought at all costs for good.
It was time for the eagles( angels ) to come in and help the near destruction of Frodo.
The entire story is Religious.
From what I have read, CW Lewis and Tolkien were either friends or associated.
Posted on 10/27/13 at 6:03 pm to Wild Thang
JRRT converted Lewis (an atheist) to Christianity
Posted on 10/27/13 at 6:15 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Nazgul, Fell Beasts, the Eye of Sauron can strike down anything, hoards of orcs would be waiting for them on Mount Doom, etc. They may have destroyed the Ring, but using the Eagles to destroy the Ring would have ensured their deaths.
All he's gotta do is not put the thing on his finger for a few hours and all of that is avoided
Posted on 10/27/13 at 6:27 pm to TigerMyth36
quote:I get it. I don't know what these other people's problems are. It's pretty obvious to me.
I've also stated countless times that I understand why they weren't used.
The problem with using them at all makes it silly when they aren't used.
Like I said earlier, I knew exactly how they dwarves were going to escape from the trees when they got in there.
But like with many dues ex devices, it usually hurts the story.
Some people just can't handle others pointing out flaws and think that opinions count just as much as fact when debating.
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