- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
Commissioner decision regarding veto votes (Need your vote)
Posted on 10/8/13 at 10:34 pm
Posted on 10/8/13 at 10:34 pm
Hey Guys,
I'm new the site. The site looks to be pretty legit due to the amount of activity each day. I am posting for help to resolve a very important matter in my fantasy league this year. This site was referenced from one of the league owners. My league needs non-biased third party opinions, so please I'm asking for your help. By the way, I am the commissioner of the league. I'm not sure if the posts have a character limit on here so I apologize if this post was pieced together. Without further ado, here is the entire situation. So I'll start out saying that this is a ten team league and by the title I'm sure you understand that this is all stemmed by a trade which was vetoed. I'm completely transparent with the league. I've been playing fantasy for 4 years while the accepter of my trade is playing for the first year. I was actually involved in the trade; the trade was accepted last Thursday, Oct 3 before week 5 started. My teams record was 2-2 Team: QB-Stafford,Luck / Rb's-Jamal Charles,Doug Martin,D Sproles,Joique Bell,Lamar Miller/WRs-Vincent Jackson,Larry Fitz,T.Y. Hilton,Cecil Shorts,Chris Givens/ Te-Jared Cook/ Defense-Chiefs,Patriots. The other owner who accepted the trade has the following record and team: 1-3 QB-Tony Romo, Alex Smith,Russel Wilson/ Rb's-Frank Gore, Bernard Pierce, Ray Rice, DeAngelo Williams/ Wr's-Dez Bryant,Rueben Randle,Randall Cobb,Steve Smith,Miles Austin/ Te-Tony Gonzalez,Greg Olsen/ Defense-Bears. (Guy has a good team for his first draft.) Ok, so now you've seen the teams. The trade that I offered just after week 4 finished. My trade offer was Darren Sproles for Ray Rice. As I was looking for opportunities on rosters, I came to see this owner's roster had Ray Rice on the bench. I knew he has been performing horribly, splitting carries, and been injured. In my league, Ray Rice was avg 4.3 points/week while on a 27th ranked offense. His lowest game other than not playing in week 3 was in week 4 for 1.7 points. Rice's stats through week 4 were:30 carries for 89 yards 1 td, 11 catches for 44 yards. Darren Sproles was avg 13.4 points/week while being on the 4th ranked offense. He just had a monster game in week 4 for 27.4 points/week. His lowest week of points was 7. Sproles stats through week 4 were: 22 carries for 93 yards 1 td, 23 catches for 277 yards 1 td. So my thought is, sell high/buy low. I provided the owner with a trade evaluator which showed all the stats including strength of schedule. With that said, according to the numbers in 4 weeks, the players were comparable. If anything, Sproles is the better performer. My thought is that the owner wants more consistency in points per week while I was willing to play the risk/reward since rice has done nothing and been hurt. The owner accepted the trade and slowly my league got out of hand. The trade evaluation period is 3 days so of course, the vetoes were used and our trade was blocked before the start of week 5. Of course, I'm upset, just like the owners who used the vetoes. To be honest, this is my second year running the league and I'm still learning all the rules. I definitely take ownership of the league and take full responsibility when I do something wrong. Anyway, my trade was vetoed and it led me to start researching the meaning of veto and why it exists in the league. The more I read, the more I thought the league did not have the right to tell two teams they could not do the deal. Since Thursday, Oct 3, I have done nothing but fight the entire league. I did not abuse my power as commissioner. What I did was use the league board to present my case. My thought is that clearly no one I'm playing with understands why veto even exists in the league. I read hundreds of articles, forums, and personal opinions on the issue of veto power. All pretty much stating the same exact thing every time. Veto power exists to prevent collusion from occurring in the league. What I stated on the league was,in short summary, that the league basically formed collusion verse my trade. It abused the system which was put in place specifically for moments of collusion and collusion only. I sourced a number of articles and very similar situations. I brought up court because I think it's relevant. An entire case is built on factual information with credible sources. If you walk into court and give opinion to state your case, you obviously would lose. Here is one of the sources I quoted. Who would be more qualified to give an explanation of what veto power is and when it should be used than the ESPN senior fantasy analyst, Matthew Berry. He states the following listed in a piece (LINK he wrote: "thou shall not veto.
I'm new the site. The site looks to be pretty legit due to the amount of activity each day. I am posting for help to resolve a very important matter in my fantasy league this year. This site was referenced from one of the league owners. My league needs non-biased third party opinions, so please I'm asking for your help. By the way, I am the commissioner of the league. I'm not sure if the posts have a character limit on here so I apologize if this post was pieced together. Without further ado, here is the entire situation. So I'll start out saying that this is a ten team league and by the title I'm sure you understand that this is all stemmed by a trade which was vetoed. I'm completely transparent with the league. I've been playing fantasy for 4 years while the accepter of my trade is playing for the first year. I was actually involved in the trade; the trade was accepted last Thursday, Oct 3 before week 5 started. My teams record was 2-2 Team: QB-Stafford,Luck / Rb's-Jamal Charles,Doug Martin,D Sproles,Joique Bell,Lamar Miller/WRs-Vincent Jackson,Larry Fitz,T.Y. Hilton,Cecil Shorts,Chris Givens/ Te-Jared Cook/ Defense-Chiefs,Patriots. The other owner who accepted the trade has the following record and team: 1-3 QB-Tony Romo, Alex Smith,Russel Wilson/ Rb's-Frank Gore, Bernard Pierce, Ray Rice, DeAngelo Williams/ Wr's-Dez Bryant,Rueben Randle,Randall Cobb,Steve Smith,Miles Austin/ Te-Tony Gonzalez,Greg Olsen/ Defense-Bears. (Guy has a good team for his first draft.) Ok, so now you've seen the teams. The trade that I offered just after week 4 finished. My trade offer was Darren Sproles for Ray Rice. As I was looking for opportunities on rosters, I came to see this owner's roster had Ray Rice on the bench. I knew he has been performing horribly, splitting carries, and been injured. In my league, Ray Rice was avg 4.3 points/week while on a 27th ranked offense. His lowest game other than not playing in week 3 was in week 4 for 1.7 points. Rice's stats through week 4 were:30 carries for 89 yards 1 td, 11 catches for 44 yards. Darren Sproles was avg 13.4 points/week while being on the 4th ranked offense. He just had a monster game in week 4 for 27.4 points/week. His lowest week of points was 7. Sproles stats through week 4 were: 22 carries for 93 yards 1 td, 23 catches for 277 yards 1 td. So my thought is, sell high/buy low. I provided the owner with a trade evaluator which showed all the stats including strength of schedule. With that said, according to the numbers in 4 weeks, the players were comparable. If anything, Sproles is the better performer. My thought is that the owner wants more consistency in points per week while I was willing to play the risk/reward since rice has done nothing and been hurt. The owner accepted the trade and slowly my league got out of hand. The trade evaluation period is 3 days so of course, the vetoes were used and our trade was blocked before the start of week 5. Of course, I'm upset, just like the owners who used the vetoes. To be honest, this is my second year running the league and I'm still learning all the rules. I definitely take ownership of the league and take full responsibility when I do something wrong. Anyway, my trade was vetoed and it led me to start researching the meaning of veto and why it exists in the league. The more I read, the more I thought the league did not have the right to tell two teams they could not do the deal. Since Thursday, Oct 3, I have done nothing but fight the entire league. I did not abuse my power as commissioner. What I did was use the league board to present my case. My thought is that clearly no one I'm playing with understands why veto even exists in the league. I read hundreds of articles, forums, and personal opinions on the issue of veto power. All pretty much stating the same exact thing every time. Veto power exists to prevent collusion from occurring in the league. What I stated on the league was,in short summary, that the league basically formed collusion verse my trade. It abused the system which was put in place specifically for moments of collusion and collusion only. I sourced a number of articles and very similar situations. I brought up court because I think it's relevant. An entire case is built on factual information with credible sources. If you walk into court and give opinion to state your case, you obviously would lose. Here is one of the sources I quoted. Who would be more qualified to give an explanation of what veto power is and when it should be used than the ESPN senior fantasy analyst, Matthew Berry. He states the following listed in a piece (LINK he wrote: "thou shall not veto.
9
Posted on 10/8/13 at 10:35 pm to Humble opponent
If there is obvious collusion between two owners, then the commissioner (or league via veto) should not allow it. But other than that? Let it go. People should be allowed to coach their team and trade whoever they want, even if you think it's a really stupid rip-off trade. Negotiating a steal of a deal is part of fantasy skill and as long as both parties want to do the deal, you're a punk if you block it. Especially the people who block a trade just because it doesn't involve them or because it's part of their "strategy" to block other teams from improving. That's the coward's way out and you're a scummy, spineless punk if you do that. Win on the virtual field, not in the bureaucracy." Not one owner could provide any factual information which would give reason for the trade to not go through. The only arguments brought up were all opinion: 1) "He's Ray Rice!" 2) "You can't change the rules midseason." (I actually thought this made sense at one point) 3) "You can't trade a #1 rd pick for a #6 rd pick." I made a mistake of asking the league owners to read the material and vote on a poll. By agreeing to the poll it meant that you agreed to incorporate the following into the league: 1) Co-Commissioner 60%/40% ownership 2) remove veto ability from the owners. All trades would be reviewed by questioning each party involved in the trade. If the explanation makes sense and their appears to be no collusion, the trade will be processed. With the poll being at 4 in favor and 2 against, I had one owner who didn't read any of the information and decided to call to let me know that I'm wrong for what I'm doing. I literally let the owner have it. He had no factual information while I had sourced documents that solidified my case. Eventually, the poll majority voted 5 to 4 against the changes. Big surprise! One owner, same one who called me to argue, actually refused to vote or even read the material I posted on the league board. I know the league looks like a disaster, but there are some actual responsible owners who read everything I post. I ran into a particular forum which made me realize that leagues are setup the exact same way that I currently have it, but the league actually understands how and when to use it. Another argument that got brought up was that "You should have let everyone know the rule at the draft." Well, that would have been great, but I didn't. As soon as I found out every detail on vetoes, everything was brought to the league. I've never run into this sort of situation while playing fantasy and it just so happens that I'm the commissioner and I am involved in the trade. I've also heard some league owners say "The trade is not fair!" At week 4 with the statistics provided, I felt it was fair. In my opinion, now that I understand veto, the other owners should have no say so in a transaction in which none of them are involved in. I told the entire league that I want to run the league as parallel to the NFL as possible. With that said, I brought up the example of a GM in the NFL. When a GM makes a trade in the NFL do the other GM's have the option to veto the trade? In addition, I have also referenced the following articles which were actually found on yahoo with the search: "analyst in favor of veto trades", ect: 1) LINK 2) LINK
3) LINK
(This commissioner was a piece of crap for removing the veto and pushing his trade through without letting his league know: They've got two posts I totally agree with by Rob dated Sept 15th, 2011 & Seth dated Sept 17th, 2011) 4) LINK
The answer is no. So this is the situation, and I need your input to determine how to handle the situation. I can say this about my league. Pretty much everyone in the league is extremely competitive which I like, but then again is probably the same reason I'm posting this. I will provide the link for this on our league wall and really appreciate all input on the matter. If you have the endurance to read all of this information and can contribute, I really would appreciate it. If you could start any responses by saying "Yes" if agree with my point of view or "No" if you disagree that I'm wrong in how I'm going about this. Any additional info after that would be great. Thanks for your help.
3) LINK
(This commissioner was a piece of crap for removing the veto and pushing his trade through without letting his league know: They've got two posts I totally agree with by Rob dated Sept 15th, 2011 & Seth dated Sept 17th, 2011) 4) LINK
The answer is no. So this is the situation, and I need your input to determine how to handle the situation. I can say this about my league. Pretty much everyone in the league is extremely competitive which I like, but then again is probably the same reason I'm posting this. I will provide the link for this on our league wall and really appreciate all input on the matter. If you have the endurance to read all of this information and can contribute, I really would appreciate it. If you could start any responses by saying "Yes" if agree with my point of view or "No" if you disagree that I'm wrong in how I'm going about this. Any additional info after that would be great. Thanks for your help.
Posted on 10/8/13 at 10:35 pm to Humble opponent
Paragraphs man, paragraphs. 
Posted on 10/8/13 at 10:36 pm to Humble opponent
Good Drew almighty.
Posted on 10/8/13 at 10:38 pm to AmosMosesAndTwins
Cliffs? Anyone?
What could he have possibly written??
What could he have possibly written??
Posted on 10/8/13 at 10:41 pm to Nonetheless
League vetoed his week 4 Sproles for Ray Rice trade.
Legit trade or veto worthy?
Legit trade or veto worthy?
This post was edited on 10/8/13 at 10:42 pm
Posted on 10/8/13 at 10:41 pm to Nonetheless
Guys I apologize of the size. It was done in notepad...all I have with the new computer.
Posted on 10/8/13 at 10:41 pm to Humble opponent
Longest 1st & 2nd post ever.
Posted on 10/8/13 at 10:42 pm to Humble opponent
trade was accepted right after week 4.
Posted on 10/8/13 at 10:45 pm to Humble opponent
Legit trade IMO.
The guys in your league are WEAK.
The guys in your league are WEAK.
Posted on 10/8/13 at 10:45 pm to Humble opponent
Not veto worthy.
I've been in the same league since 1999 and we have probably only had 5 or so trades vetoed in that time-frame.
I've been in the same league since 1999 and we have probably only had 5 or so trades vetoed in that time-frame.
Posted on 10/8/13 at 10:45 pm to Humble opponent
quote:
(This commissioner was a piece of crap for removing the veto and pushing his trade through without letting his league know: They've got two posts I totally agree with by Rob dated Sept 15th, 2011 & Seth dated Sept 17th, 2011) 4) LINK
2011?
Are you Michael J Fox?
Posted on 10/8/13 at 10:46 pm to Humble opponent
Legit trade. Guys in your league are chodes
Posted on 10/8/13 at 10:47 pm to Humble opponent
Holy shite
if you expect anyone to read that, you are out of your mind
if you expect anyone to read that, you are out of your mind
Posted on 10/8/13 at 10:48 pm to Humble opponent
Welcome to the site. But man, you need to condense this material. I want to read it and help, but I do have other shite to do the rest of this week.
Posted on 10/8/13 at 10:49 pm to Humble opponent
I read/skimmed about 70/30, and my take is this: Giving league-wide veto authority only opens up Pandora's box of problems. Veto authority should fall on the commissioner, and the commissioner alone, only to be used in instances of obvious collusion (I realize that can be interpreted as being at the discretion of the commissioner). Anything past that, you are asking for problems at some point.
One of my leagues granted league wide veto authority several years ago, as the majority of the league agreed it would be great to spread the power across the league; long story short - it was the wrong idea, in hindsight. It has been problematic, ever since inception.
That being said, your league has a set of rules, and you must play within those rules. You knew them when you joined, and if you don't like them, you're free to leave, at the cost of losing the familiarity of the league.
That trade should never have been vetoed to begin with, regardless of the perception of each player's past, present, or future value. This is where veto authority in a group becomes a problem - everyone evaluates trades and values differently - some will veto in their own selfish interests, some reliant on projections, and some on their personal opinion.
I would recommend holding a league-wide vote prior to next year's draft to absolve the collective veto authority, instead giving the authority to the commissioner, in obvious instances of collusion.
Theoretically, no trades should ever be vetoed; if a trade offer that bad is proposed, the proposing and accepting owners should have no place in your league.
Basically, you bite the curb on this one bub. If you want Rice, you can certainly submit another offer to package Sproles with a second player to even the evaluation.
One of my leagues granted league wide veto authority several years ago, as the majority of the league agreed it would be great to spread the power across the league; long story short - it was the wrong idea, in hindsight. It has been problematic, ever since inception.
That being said, your league has a set of rules, and you must play within those rules. You knew them when you joined, and if you don't like them, you're free to leave, at the cost of losing the familiarity of the league.
That trade should never have been vetoed to begin with, regardless of the perception of each player's past, present, or future value. This is where veto authority in a group becomes a problem - everyone evaluates trades and values differently - some will veto in their own selfish interests, some reliant on projections, and some on their personal opinion.
I would recommend holding a league-wide vote prior to next year's draft to absolve the collective veto authority, instead giving the authority to the commissioner, in obvious instances of collusion.
Theoretically, no trades should ever be vetoed; if a trade offer that bad is proposed, the proposing and accepting owners should have no place in your league.
Basically, you bite the curb on this one bub. If you want Rice, you can certainly submit another offer to package Sproles with a second player to even the evaluation.
Posted on 10/8/13 at 10:49 pm to AbitaFan08
quote:
but I do have other shite to do the rest of this week.
Posted on 10/8/13 at 10:53 pm to Humble opponent
Also, welcome. Just do the exact opposite of anything tdeucen says, and you'll win games.
Posted on 10/8/13 at 10:53 pm to Humble opponent
Fair trade! Some of the people who are saying no fair no fair are probably the ones who come out last every year, they obviously don't know anything about how to evaluate players!!!
Page 1 of 2
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News