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re: Eric Bledsoe's Trade Value
Posted on 4/25/13 at 3:09 pm to drake20
Posted on 4/25/13 at 3:09 pm to drake20
quote:
The starting unit is pretty good offensively...they're at least sufficient enough to let this excuse die.
The starting unit that includes Vasquez running the show and helping them perform considerably above their career and expectations. Man, what PG in the league wouldn't kill for an Al Farouq Aminu to pass out to on the wing?
Hell, I remember when we traded for Robin and the whole league congratulated us on getting one of the best starting centers in the NBA.....
Posted on 4/25/13 at 3:12 pm to drake20
quote:
Of course, but you have to make moves like this sometimes.
No, you really don't. Overpaying a guy in hopes that he breaks out is a slippery slope and I'm not keen on busting my arse.
Posted on 4/25/13 at 3:19 pm to drake20
quote:
Of course, but you have to make moves like this sometimes. If he was a great starter somewhere right now, the Hornets wouldn't be getting him/would be paying a lot more for him.
I remember the last guy I heard this about. He was supposed to make a jump and become one of the best players at his position in the league, as a potential superstar.
Last time I saw him, he got pulled from a game because he got into an argument with Monty after spending the better part of two seasons seriously gimped up.
You may have a hard-on for Bledsoe and think he'll be the next CP3, but what you're suggesting is that the team seriously overpay in assets for an unproven starter when we've got a proven one right now and could make him better by getting him some help at the 3.
Posted on 4/25/13 at 3:20 pm to Jester
quote:
Neither is rebounding, but Greivis rebounds at a very similar rate. Another thing that Bledsoe is not "better at."
Based on their heights, I'd argue that Bledsoe is actually a better rebounder. He can initiate breaks and increase pace off rebounds way better than Vasquez...We should be running--young team, Davis and Anderson are very good break players.
quote:
Neither is rebounding
maybe, but it's a lot more valuable than post D as a PG.
quote:
Okay, you asked me, now i get to ask you, aside from defense, where is Bledsoe quantifiably better than Vasquez?
Quantifiably, he has lower numbers in everything cause he plays 14 less minutes, but he does have a higher FG%, 3PT%, and PER.
He can play defense/create turnovers and get to the bucket a lot better than Vasquez. His defense is an elite skill. His offense is coming along. He's athletic and coordinated--no physical limitations as a PG.
Posted on 4/25/13 at 3:22 pm to teke184
quote:
You may have a hard-on for Bledsoe and think he'll be the next CP3, but what you're suggesting is that the team seriously overpay in assets for an unproven starter when we've got a proven one right now and could make him better by getting him some help at the 3.
Posted on 4/25/13 at 3:24 pm to drake20
quote:
Quantifiably, he has lower numbers in everything cause he plays 14 less minutes, but he does have a higher FG%, 3PT%, and PER.
You know what statisticians would call the differences between Vasquez and Bledsoe at FG%% and 3PT%? Statistical noise.
Their percentages are close enough that it is arguable that they are equals.
PER is a different story, but it is also a statistic which has a lot of detractors.
One of the arguments against it is that it doesn't take into account how many assisted shots a player takes, as a player capable of creating their own shots is more valuable than one who can't.
Posted on 4/25/13 at 3:35 pm to Jester
ya, he's just below average in everything. Offense is supposed to be what he's good at. He's definitely bad on D.
hallejujah
This isn't really what I'm looking for...He's a bad starter?
...why I included his inability to beat his man. He shoots those floaters over his man--not a particularly good percentage--amd he often can't get the offense going because of it.
Davis and a quick/fast point guard will be awesome.
quote:
So, he's better than at least 8 other starters?
hallejujah
quote:
Just below average
quote:
Above average and quantifiable as better than several starting PGs....
This isn't really what I'm looking for...He's a bad starter?
quote:
He gets into the post for running floaters pretty consistently for a guy that can't penetrate.
...why I included his inability to beat his man. He shoots those floaters over his man--not a particularly good percentage--amd he often can't get the offense going because of it.
Davis and a quick/fast point guard will be awesome.
Posted on 4/25/13 at 3:36 pm to drake20
quote:
Based on their heights, I'd argue that Bledsoe is actually a better rebounder
So, his rebounds somehow create more than one possession each?
quote:
He can initiate breaks and increase pace off rebounds way better than Vasquez.
But he is under the basket trying to get a rebound and not out leading the break....
quote:
We should be running--young team, Davis and Anderson are very good break players.
Meh, we don't have the horses to be a running team. Anderson is NOT a good fast break player, other than in the trail position, which is more of a secondary break, but that's beside the point. He does not run the floor like Davis.
Also, Monty seems to be more of a half court coach, so I wouldn't expect us to suddenly become the Heat.
quote:
maybe, but it's a lot more valuable than post D as a PG.
Which is good for Vasquez, because he's tied for #2 among PGs in RPG.....
quote:
Quantifiably, he has lower numbers in everything cause he plays 14 less minutes, but he does have a higher FG%, 3PT%, and PER.
I broke down each stat individually in a previous post.
quote:
no physical limitations as a PG.
Well, he's only 6' tall. That's too short for Trey Burke to be a PG in the NBA...
Posted on 4/25/13 at 3:38 pm to drake20
quote:
. He shoots those floaters over his man--not a particularly good percentage--amd he often can't get the offense going because of it.
What percentage does he shoot on those floaters? I ask because you made that up.
quote:
ya, he's just below average in everything
You are absolutely wrong here. He assists consistently at an elite level.
ETA - We had a good discussion a few weeks ago about how Gordon and Vasquez have a tendency to draw bigs and allow weakside rebounds for our forwards and centers. Even when they miss, the rebound rate is pretty high, which makes them "good misses." See Kobe Assist.
This post was edited on 4/25/13 at 3:41 pm
Posted on 4/25/13 at 3:39 pm to drake20
quote:
Davis and a quick/fast point guard will be awesome.
I bet Tack Minor is available.
Posted on 4/25/13 at 3:42 pm to Jester
quote:
The starting unit that includes Vasquez running the show and helping them perform considerably above their career and expectations.
c'mon man...This can go both ways. Ryan Anderson and Anthony Davis are helping Vasquez perform well in the assist department.
...as well as Lopez and gordon--good offensive players at their positions.
Posted on 4/25/13 at 3:42 pm to Jester
I think it's funny CP3 is pimpin Bledsoe so hard when in reality all he's likely trying to do is get people to overpay for the kid knowing he's on his way out. Clever little bastard.
Posted on 4/25/13 at 3:43 pm to drake20
quote:
He can play defense/create turnovers and get to the bucket a lot better than Vasquez. His defense is an elite skill. His offense is coming along. He's athletic and coordinated--no physical limitations as a PG.
We need to stop going in circles over Vasquez vs. Bledsoe. I think most of us have accepted that Vasquez isn't a heavy minutes starter on a contending Pelicans team. It really is all about how high do you think Bledsoe's ceiling is, not how he compares to Vasquez now. If he's going to be a game changer then giving up 2 assets for him isn't bad. If he's just going to be another average to slightly above average starting PG then giving up either Lopez or Vasquez and a pick that could probably net a comparable player is stupid.
As much as everyone is tired of losing, we don't need to fix the entire team this offseason. A competent SF and a better C could be cheaper to acquire than Bledsoe. Unless the FO really loves Burke, save the PG upgrade for next season when your 2014 draft pick may solve the problem.
This post was edited on 4/25/13 at 4:09 pm
Posted on 4/25/13 at 3:45 pm to Jester
quote:
No, you really don't. Overpaying a guy in hopes that he breaks out is a slippery slope and I'm not keen on busting my arse.
Never sign a bench player in hopes that he can become a starter?
I'm not trying to overpay, but I think Bledsoe is valuable.
Posted on 4/25/13 at 3:45 pm to drake20
quote:
This can go both ways
Which is why I made the above statement. It was in response to you implying that it only goes one way.
Posted on 4/25/13 at 3:46 pm to drake20
quote:
Never sign a bench player in hopes that he can become a starter?
You are the only person speaking in absolutes here.
Posted on 4/25/13 at 3:47 pm to teke184
quote:
I remember the last guy I heard this about. He was supposed to make a jump and become one of the best players at his position in the league, as a potential superstar.
Last time I saw him, he got pulled from a game because he got into an argument with Monty after spending the better part of two seasons seriously gimped up.
You think that is a similar comparison?
quote:
You may have a hard-on for Bledsoe and think he'll be the next CP3, but what you're suggesting is that the team seriously overpay in assets for an unproven starter
Exaggerating a bit much, eh? No one is calling him the next CP3 nor are we saying we should overpay. Bench players and a maybe draft pick in a weak draft? Sure.
quote:
we've got a proven one right now and could make him better by getting him some help at the 3.
We have a guy who has proven he would be great off the bench. Having a lot of assists doesn't qualify you as a being some great point guard. Isn't there more to it? Jose freakin Calderon has been top 5 in assists for like 10 years straight and no one even knows he exists, probably because he is average to below average.
Bledsoe 23/10/7 vs Boston
Bledsoe 27/6/6 vs Orlando
Dude is a swiss army knife PG. He does a little of everything. Let's take of the teal glasses and enlightened ourselves with some other players
Posted on 4/25/13 at 3:48 pm to teke184
quote:
You may have a hard-on for Bledsoe and think he'll be the next CP3
Bledsoe would be a big upgrade over Vasquez imo = I have a hard-on and I think he'll be the next CP3
Posted on 4/25/13 at 3:48 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
If he's just going to be another average to slightly above average starting PG then giving up either Lopez or Vasquez and a pick that could probably net a comparable player is stupid.
This is my feeling on it. I don't think Bledsoe is ever going to be an elite PG. If even his own team thought he had that potential, they don't break the bank for Paul. People want to argue that they refused to give up Bledsoe, but that was not the case. From all indications, they refused to give up both Bledsoe AND Gordon. We chose Gordon. Take it for what it's worth. Also, if they thought he had star potential, they would hold onto him until Paul resigns. Right now, in my humble opinion, he's Darren Collison 2.0.
Posted on 4/25/13 at 3:49 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
No one is calling him the next CP3
Drake absolutely is. See the post directly below yours.
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