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The Order of the Basketball World and disruption to its order by the Demigod(MJ)
Posted on 10/24/12 at 9:51 pm
Posted on 10/24/12 at 9:51 pm
The basketball Gods have seemly controlled the realm of the basketball world effortlessly and have awarded championships to almost all deserving players. It's no coincidence that almost all of the greatest players to ever play this game have either won or played for a championship
There are 2 decades, the 60s and 90s, that were ruled by demigods (MJ and Russell). They caused so much chaos and disorder to the system that many great players in their decade missed out on championships. Outside of those areas, it's been an almost free for all in terms of championships.
I'll start off with the 80s. The 3 semi gods of that era were Isiah, Bird and Magic. They combined for 9/10 championships in the 80s.
In the one year they didn't, Dr. J and Moses Malone stole one from the Lakers. But they also made it to 3 finals as well.
The 70s were an absolute free for all we had many many great players, but no seemingly transcendant players (Wilt, Jerry, Elgin are towards the end of their careers).
Kareem got 1, Oscar got 1, Rick Barry got 1. Dave Cowen, Bill Walton, the Frazier, Monroe got 2. It was the decade of great players, but no real great teams. I believe Jerry, Wilt and Elgin got 1 as well. Kareem's longevity allowed him to join Magic in the 80s for his run.
We know the 60s were dominated by the Sixers, Celtics and Lakers, with Russell being the only other basketball player to disrupt and cause disarray to the basketball world outside Jordan. He won so much that he prevented many other great players to win rings.
Now look at the 90s. If Jordan doesn't retire, the bulls probably reel off 8 straight championships. Jordan took down Clyde, Magic, Stockton, Miller, Mullin, Hardaway, Malone, Kevin Johnson, Gary Payton, Ewing, Robinson, Hakeem, Shaq etc on his way to his rings. The 93-94 and 94-95 seasons were similar to the 70s as they were absolute free for alls. IMO, Hakeem's run here cemented him as one f the greatest ever if you look at who he had to go through to get 2 rings during that time span. It's one of the most impressive run in sports especially when you look at how undermanned his teams were.
Once Jordan retired in 99, we hit a decade similar to the 80s. In the 00s, Duncan, Kobe and Shaq combined to win 8/10 championships. The 04 pistons are an historical outlier, based off their teams composition and make up (have to look to the 70s sonics and bullets for similar comparisons). The 08 Celtics played in 2 finals and one 1, with 3 future HOFers.
But this decade also granted refuge to those that were unable to win because of the chaos of Jordan. GP, Kidd, Robinson, Mourning, etc were all able to play for and win championships.
Other all time greats like Wade, Dirk, Lebron, Gasol, etc have been able to win championships in an era that seems to teeter in between the 70s and the 80s.
It'll be interesting to see if the next 7-8 years will be dominated by Durant and Bron, or if Bron can become the next basketball Demi-god and prevent other greats from achieving championships.
in short, the order of the basketball world has always reserved its championship round for its most elite and legendary players. Outside a few outliers, the greatest players of the sport have all competed in a championship round, which is all you can really ask for. However, Demi-god players like MJ and Russell have prevented some of those all time greats from getting those coveted championships during their periods of dominance. Some of the greatests had to withstand and outlast those eras of dominance to get their coveted ring in another decade.
It should be interesting to see if Nash and Howard can get a ring with Kobe. If the lakers win a ring within this teams window, I think we would have to consider Kobe as apart of the Basketball Demi-God Group.
There are 2 decades, the 60s and 90s, that were ruled by demigods (MJ and Russell). They caused so much chaos and disorder to the system that many great players in their decade missed out on championships. Outside of those areas, it's been an almost free for all in terms of championships.
I'll start off with the 80s. The 3 semi gods of that era were Isiah, Bird and Magic. They combined for 9/10 championships in the 80s.
In the one year they didn't, Dr. J and Moses Malone stole one from the Lakers. But they also made it to 3 finals as well.
The 70s were an absolute free for all we had many many great players, but no seemingly transcendant players (Wilt, Jerry, Elgin are towards the end of their careers).
Kareem got 1, Oscar got 1, Rick Barry got 1. Dave Cowen, Bill Walton, the Frazier, Monroe got 2. It was the decade of great players, but no real great teams. I believe Jerry, Wilt and Elgin got 1 as well. Kareem's longevity allowed him to join Magic in the 80s for his run.
We know the 60s were dominated by the Sixers, Celtics and Lakers, with Russell being the only other basketball player to disrupt and cause disarray to the basketball world outside Jordan. He won so much that he prevented many other great players to win rings.
Now look at the 90s. If Jordan doesn't retire, the bulls probably reel off 8 straight championships. Jordan took down Clyde, Magic, Stockton, Miller, Mullin, Hardaway, Malone, Kevin Johnson, Gary Payton, Ewing, Robinson, Hakeem, Shaq etc on his way to his rings. The 93-94 and 94-95 seasons were similar to the 70s as they were absolute free for alls. IMO, Hakeem's run here cemented him as one f the greatest ever if you look at who he had to go through to get 2 rings during that time span. It's one of the most impressive run in sports especially when you look at how undermanned his teams were.
Once Jordan retired in 99, we hit a decade similar to the 80s. In the 00s, Duncan, Kobe and Shaq combined to win 8/10 championships. The 04 pistons are an historical outlier, based off their teams composition and make up (have to look to the 70s sonics and bullets for similar comparisons). The 08 Celtics played in 2 finals and one 1, with 3 future HOFers.
But this decade also granted refuge to those that were unable to win because of the chaos of Jordan. GP, Kidd, Robinson, Mourning, etc were all able to play for and win championships.
Other all time greats like Wade, Dirk, Lebron, Gasol, etc have been able to win championships in an era that seems to teeter in between the 70s and the 80s.
It'll be interesting to see if the next 7-8 years will be dominated by Durant and Bron, or if Bron can become the next basketball Demi-god and prevent other greats from achieving championships.
in short, the order of the basketball world has always reserved its championship round for its most elite and legendary players. Outside a few outliers, the greatest players of the sport have all competed in a championship round, which is all you can really ask for. However, Demi-god players like MJ and Russell have prevented some of those all time greats from getting those coveted championships during their periods of dominance. Some of the greatests had to withstand and outlast those eras of dominance to get their coveted ring in another decade.
It should be interesting to see if Nash and Howard can get a ring with Kobe. If the lakers win a ring within this teams window, I think we would have to consider Kobe as apart of the Basketball Demi-God Group.
Posted on 10/24/12 at 9:58 pm to Touch It
In response to your article. The 90's sucked. A lotta sucky players in a watered down league after the greats retired and before the expansion of the NBA into a global talent pool.
Jordan was and still is a joke.
Jordan was and still is a joke.
Posted on 10/24/12 at 9:59 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
Jordan was and still is a joke.
Dude...
Posted on 10/24/12 at 10:01 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
In response to your article. The 90's sucked. A lotta sucky players in a watered down league after the greats retired and before the expansion of the NBA into a global talent pool. Jordan was and still is a joke.
But think of all the all time greatest that DIDN'T win because of Jordan. That number is significantly less in every other decade outside the 60s
Posted on 10/24/12 at 10:03 pm to Touch It
quote:
But think of all the all time greatest that DIDN'T win because of Jordan.
Switch Malone, Barkley, Stockton, or any above average player with Jordan and the Bulls still win. Those TEAMS were that good.
The Bulls almost made it to the NBA finals with Pete Freaking Myers in Jordan's spot with everything else being equal in 94.
This thread is invalid.
Posted on 10/24/12 at 10:08 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
The Bulls almost made it to the NBA finals with Pete Freaking Myers in Jordan's spot with everything else being equal in 94.
That is the biggest misconception in basketball. Albeit, Pippen was the best player in basketball that year, he would have had to beat the Pacers. Not sure if they would have. And they lost in the eastern semis too.
Those teams were good, don't get it me wrong. But the 93-95 seasons were an absolute slugfest.
Hakeem, Clyde, Barkley, Pip, Stockton, Malone, Ewing, Robinson, Reggie all duking it out for a championship.
Posted on 10/24/12 at 10:12 pm to Touch It
quote:
Hakeem, Clyde, Barkley, Pip, Stockton, Malone, Ewing, Robinson, Reggie
You listed NINE players...do you realize that? Just NINE.
In today's NBA you have to have at least 3 great players on ONE team just to COMPETE.
I could list 20-50 players off the top of my head who could be considered great in the current NBA.
This post was edited on 10/24/12 at 10:13 pm
Posted on 10/24/12 at 10:22 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
quote: Hakeem, Clyde, Barkley, Pip, Stockton, Malone, Ewing, Robinson, Reggie
Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson >>> any center today
Malone, Barkley = Duncan, KG
Clyde, Reggie < Kobe, Wade
Pip< Lebron, but Pip > Durant and every other SF today
Stockton, GP, Kidd, Price > The PGs today.
Posted on 10/24/12 at 10:24 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
In response to your article. The 90's sucked. A lotta sucky players in a watered down league after the greats retired and before the expansion of the NBA into a global talent pool. Jordan was and still is a joke.
Get off Kobe's dick you dumbfrick
Posted on 10/24/12 at 10:29 pm to Touch It
quote:
Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson >>> any center today
Malone, Barkley = Duncan, KG
Clyde, Reggie < Kobe, Wade
Pip< Lebron, but Pip > Durant and every other SF today
Stockton, GP, Kidd, Price > The PGs today.
List of Recent great players in the last few years: arbitrarily stopped at 50
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Chris Bosh
Dwayne Wade
Chris Paul
Carmelo Anthony
Pau Gasol
Steve Nash
Amare Stoudemire
Dirk Nowitzki
Tim Duncan
Tony Parker
Deron Williams
Carlos Boozer
Brando Roy
Dwight Howard
Vince Carter
Paul Pierce
Kevin Garnett
Rajon Rondo
Ron Artest
Ray Allen
Shaq
Manu Ginobli
Chauncy Billups
Russell Westbrook
Jason Kidd
Blake Griffin
David Lee
Al Horford
Gerald Wallace
Derrick Rose
Kevin Love
Zach Randolph
Joe Johnson
Tracy McGrady
Zach Randolf
Shawn Marion
David West
Rasheed Wallace
Marc Gasol
LaMarcus Aldridge
Yao Ming
Allen Iverson
Devin Harris
Danny Granger
Al Horford
Marcus Camby
Monta Ellis (who, btw had 25.5 ppg on 45% shooting this year)
Brandon Jennings
Rudy Gay (19.6 ppg on 47% this year)
Lamar Odom
Andrew Bynum
Grant Hill
This post was edited on 10/24/12 at 10:42 pm
Posted on 10/24/12 at 10:34 pm to theunknownknight
I can't believe you listed half those guys as great players.
Posted on 10/24/12 at 10:35 pm to theunknownknight
Great. I mean HOFers.
Only 15-20 of those guys will sniff the HOF.
Kobe
Wade
Bron
Dirk
Kidd
Duncan
Nash
Iverson
Shaq
Pierce
KG
Allen
Gasol
Rondo
CP3
Deron
Durant
Howard
everyone else is border line, not making it, or hasn't played enough yet
Only 15-20 of those guys will sniff the HOF.
Kobe
Wade
Bron
Dirk
Kidd
Duncan
Nash
Iverson
Shaq
Pierce
KG
Allen
Gasol
Rondo
CP3
Deron
Durant
Howard
everyone else is border line, not making it, or hasn't played enough yet
This post was edited on 10/24/12 at 10:38 pm
Posted on 10/24/12 at 10:36 pm to stevo1905
quote:
I can't believe you listed half those guys as great players.
List the top 53 players from 1993 and let's compare
Posted on 10/24/12 at 10:38 pm to stevo1905
quote:
Stockton, GP, Kidd, Price > The PGs today.
1. Right now is the best time for PGs EVER and its not even close.
2. Price and Kidd/GP aren't part of the same era
Posted on 10/24/12 at 10:40 pm to theunknownknight
Kevin Johnson or Russell Westbrook/Rose
Mitch Richmond or Harden/Joe Johnson
C-Webb/Kemp or Griffin
Melo or Pippen/Glen Rice/Grant Hill
I'm taking the 90s players everywhere but PG and that's a WASH itself
Mitch Richmond or Harden/Joe Johnson
C-Webb/Kemp or Griffin
Melo or Pippen/Glen Rice/Grant Hill
I'm taking the 90s players everywhere but PG and that's a WASH itself
Posted on 10/24/12 at 10:41 pm to Touch It
All HOF worthy IMO by the end of their careers
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Chris Bosh
Dwayne Wade
Chris Paul
Carmelo Anthony
Pau Gasol
Steve Nash
Dirk Nowitzki
Tim Duncan
Tony Parker
Deron Williams
Dwight Howard
Vince Carter
Paul Pierce
Kevin Garnett
Rajon Rondo
Ray Allen
Shaq
Manu Ginobli
Russell Westbrook
Jason Kidd
Blake Griffin
Derrick Rose
Kevin Love
Allen Iverson
Grant Hill
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Chris Bosh
Dwayne Wade
Chris Paul
Carmelo Anthony
Pau Gasol
Steve Nash
Dirk Nowitzki
Tim Duncan
Tony Parker
Deron Williams
Dwight Howard
Vince Carter
Paul Pierce
Kevin Garnett
Rajon Rondo
Ray Allen
Shaq
Manu Ginobli
Russell Westbrook
Jason Kidd
Blake Griffin
Derrick Rose
Kevin Love
Allen Iverson
Grant Hill
Posted on 10/24/12 at 10:42 pm to VerlanderBEAST
Those guys would have had a field day today.
Mark Price was Chris Paul before Chris Paul. Think abut him with the rules today.
Timmy Hardaway? penny? KJ? Mookie? GP?
Mark Price was Chris Paul before Chris Paul. Think abut him with the rules today.
Timmy Hardaway? penny? KJ? Mookie? GP?
Posted on 10/24/12 at 10:43 pm to Touch It
quote:
C-Webb
He played the majority of his career post 90's fwiw
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