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re: Penn State vacates all wins from 1998-2011, 4 year postseason ban, $73M fine
Posted on 7/23/12 at 11:56 am to USAF Hart
Posted on 7/23/12 at 11:56 am to USAF Hart
.... well, in all practicality - they got pretty much a "death penalty" for the program, wouldn't you say ? ... Tough on current and incoming players, and even past players - who, of course, had nothing to do with any of this. Not to mention athletes in the other NCAA sports at the school. Football revenue certainly is important to their continued viability, These other teams will suffer greatly. At any rate, NCAA ruling also gives , wisely and correctly, all PSU current and incoming players IMMEDIATE TRANSFER and ELIGIBILITY status , provided academic standing is acceptable. I think this should also EXTEND TO ALL OTHER SPORTS at PSU... The Nittany Lion ship will be listing heavily, if not sinking, and it can be expected that plenty will "jump ship" ..
1
Posted on 7/23/12 at 11:58 am to Quidam65
quote:
Problem is they can't pull any of them. Under the sanctions, any player who wants to remain can remain and they keep their scholarship so long as they're academically ineligible.
Interesting. So, hypothetically speaking....
Say they have a full 85 players under scholarship this year. 15 are seniors. None of the underclassmen have elected to transfer, and let's assume they don't lose any to things like academic ineligibility or leaving early for the NFL, so they only lose 15 to graduation at the end of the year. At the start of the 2013 season would you still say they had 70 players under scholarship, even though per the sanctions they are only allowed 65?
In that scenario are they just not allowed to sign any incoming freshman until they get under the max scholarship cap?
Just curious how this actually works when you look at (potentially) real numbers.
Posted on 7/23/12 at 11:58 am to Zamoro10
They never take the public through each detail of the case. They provided info on which bylaws the penalties are based on and the full report/details will be listed in the infractions database for CFN, Zamoro, and everyone else to view if they so choose.
Posted on 7/23/12 at 12:08 pm to MOT
Okay I am confused about the scholarships.
Let me get my math right.
As of right now, PSU can have up to 85 scholarships players but since the ruling came down.
They lose 10 or 15 off the bat and each year after that they lose 20 and they can have only the max scholarships of 65 (D-1AA is 63)?
But here is another thing to think about, what about the Department of Education, CIC, and AAU if they going to give punishments as well to the university, they drop the hammer on them too then what would B1G do.
Let me get my math right.
As of right now, PSU can have up to 85 scholarships players but since the ruling came down.
They lose 10 or 15 off the bat and each year after that they lose 20 and they can have only the max scholarships of 65 (D-1AA is 63)?
But here is another thing to think about, what about the Department of Education, CIC, and AAU if they going to give punishments as well to the university, they drop the hammer on them too then what would B1G do.
Posted on 7/23/12 at 12:12 pm to volfan30
thanks for posting volfan. IMO, this is worse than a one year death penalty. Could set the program back a long time if im understanding correctly that they will lose 20 scholarships per year.
Posted on 7/23/12 at 12:14 pm to volfan30
quote:
- Four year bowl ban
-Four year Big Ten championship game ban
With the scholly losses, I don't think either of these will be an issue for way longer than 4 years.
This might as well have been the death penalty. For all intents and purposes it is. The only reason I can fathom it isn't officially, is to keep from penalizing the rest of the Big Ten and Penn State's nonconference opponents (holes in all those schedules that would need to be filled at the last minute).
Posted on 7/23/12 at 12:15 pm to GeauxGus
Well put, GEauxGus. 
Posted on 7/23/12 at 12:30 pm to USAF Hart
quote:
Meh....this doesn't seem as bad as the death penalty.
4 year bowl ban!
Posted on 7/23/12 at 12:32 pm to SouljaBreauxTellEm
seriously how is this not as bad?
PSU is done for a very long long time
PSU is done for a very long long time
Posted on 7/23/12 at 12:55 pm to NekiEcko
quote:
Okay I am confused about the scholarships.
Let me get my math right.
No problem, let me help.
Prior to the sanctions they could have 85 football players on scholarship and they could offer the lesser of 25 scholarships or the number of openings below 85 that they had (if they had 74 on scholarship, they could do 11; if they had 55 on scholarship, they would have 30 openings but would be limited to 25).
After today the maximum is now 65. And the annual maximum is 15. And furthermore, any player currently on scholarship can't lose it (even if he quits football) so long as he maintains academic standing.
quote:
But here is another thing to think about, what about the Department of Education, CIC, and AAU if they going to give punishments as well to the university, they drop the hammer on them too then what would B1G do.
I think B1G already announced theirs. DoE is still investigating Cleary Act violations and they could be fined and/or lose Fed funding. Whether the latter could affect their CIC and/or AAU membership I don't know.
Posted on 7/23/12 at 12:55 pm to volfan30
Of course this isnt close to the DP. They will be playing football still.
Posted on 7/23/12 at 12:58 pm to TejasHorn
Paterno family releases a statement... LINK
quote:
Sexual abuse is reprehensible, especially when it involves children, and no one starting with Joe Paterno condones or minimizes it. The horrific acts committed by Jerry Sandusky shock the conscience of every decent human being. How Sandusky was able to get away with his crimes for so long has yet to be fully understood, despite the claims and assertions of the Freeh report.
The release of the Freeh report has triggered an avalanche of vitriol, condemnation and posthumous punishment on Joe Paterno. The NCAA has now become the latest party to accept the report as the final word on the Sandusky scandal. The sanctions announced by the NCAA today defame the legacy and contributions of a great coach and educator without any input from our family or those who knew him best.
That the President, the Athletic Director and the Board of Trustees accepted this unprecedented action by the NCAA without requiring a full due process hearing before the Committee on Infractions is an abdication of their responsibilities and a breach of their fiduciary duties to the University and the 500,000 alumni. Punishing past, present and future students of the University because of Sandusky’s crimes does not serve justice. This is not a fair or thoughtful action; it is a panicked response to the public’s understandable revulsion at what Sandusky did.
The point of due process is to protect against this sort of reflexive action. Joe Paterno was never interviewed by the University or the Freeh Group. His counsel has not been able to interview key witnesses as they are represented by counsel related to ongoing litigation. We have had no access to the records reviewed by the Freeh group. The NCAA never contacted our family or our legal counsel. And the fact that several parties have pending trials that could produce evidence and testimony relevant to this matter has been totally discounted.
Unfortunately all of these facts have been ignored by the NCAA, the Freeh Group and the University.
Posted on 7/23/12 at 1:05 pm to TDawg1313
quote:
That the President, the Athletic Director and the Board of Trustees accepted this unprecedented action by the NCAA without requiring a full due process hearing before the Committee on Infractions is an abdication of their responsibilities and a breach of their fiduciary duties to the University and the 500,000 alumni. Punishing past, present and future students of the University because of Sandusky’s crimes does not serve justice. This is not a fair or thoughtful action; it is a panicked response to the public’s understandable revulsion at what Sandusky did.
I don't know how any educated adult can't agree with this.
Posted on 7/23/12 at 1:05 pm to TDawg1313
quote:
Punishing past, present and future students of the University because of Sandusky’s crimes does not serve justice. This is not a fair or thoughtful action; it is a panicked response to the public’s understandable revulsion at what Sandusky did.
They are not being punished for the crimes. They are being punished for covering them up. Geez. The Paternos should lay low for a while.
Posted on 7/23/12 at 1:10 pm to graychef
The abhorrent crime is part and parcel of the reaction and thought process of what the NCAA is relying in the Freeh report and the public reaction. Don't kid yourself.
More importantly, the Paterno's are saying there is more that hasn't unfolded in the trials, investigation and crimes to run their course...and more thoughtful consideration to let people breathe and not rush to accept punishment was required of the trustees.
The fact that you are so mad at the Paterno's for asking for due diligence and some modicum of due process and just want swift vengeance speaks to what they are saying.
It's why we have procedure - cool heads and justice rarely prevail when blood is sought swiftly.
More importantly, the Paterno's are saying there is more that hasn't unfolded in the trials, investigation and crimes to run their course...and more thoughtful consideration to let people breathe and not rush to accept punishment was required of the trustees.
The fact that you are so mad at the Paterno's for asking for due diligence and some modicum of due process and just want swift vengeance speaks to what they are saying.
It's why we have procedure - cool heads and justice rarely prevail when blood is sought swiftly.
This post was edited on 7/23/12 at 1:12 pm
Posted on 7/23/12 at 1:17 pm to volfan30
Will this keep alot of Non athlete students from going to penn state. Maybe the kids will think I do not want a degree from a school known as pedo state
Posted on 7/23/12 at 1:18 pm to TDawg1313
quote:
without any input from our family
Posted on 7/23/12 at 1:24 pm to jrous19
quote:
Justice has been served, assuming your idea of justice for rape victims is to deprive a school of its next four Outback Bowl invitations.
And so, Emmert made sure his organization responded accordingly -- even if that meant revoking the traditional due process afforded every other school that's ever been punished by the NCAA; invoking a nebulous, generalized bylaw about promoting integrity that could easily apply to hundreds of lawbreaking players, coaches and staffers across the country every year; and creating a precedent for dictatorial-like intervention that must now be considered every time a scandal of any proportion arises in college athletics.
Remember when most college football fans assumed Auburn and/or Cam Newton would endure some sort of penalty when the quarterback's father openly solicited six figures from Mississippi State? The NCAA couldn't do anything, Emmert insisted, because there was no rule on the books addressing that specific scenario. We best not hear that excuse again.
And so, by waving his magic wand and making Penn State football non-competitive for the next many years, he hopes that all athletic programs will take notice and ensure they don't fall into the same trap.
Here's betting a $3 billion television contract and a $600 million-a-year playoff that he won't deter a darn thing. Instead, Penn State will remain at the front of the news for many years to come, not for the criminal acts of a former assistant coach or its leaders' abhorrent inaction in handling him, but for its football players' inevitable on-field futility.
Read more: LINK
Posted on 7/23/12 at 1:24 pm to Zamoro10
quote:
I don't know how any educated adult can't agree with this.
The NCAA can do whatever they want. It's not a court of law where they are required to go through a full due process. For how long the committee of infractions takes to decide on stuff, Emmert and his board approved basically an expedited process since they felt this needed to be addressed. I'm completely on board with every move they've made.
Posted on 7/23/12 at 1:26 pm to Zamoro10
quote:
the Paterno's are saying there is more that hasn't unfolded in the trials, investigation and crimes to run their course...and more thoughtful consideration to let people breathe and not rush to accept punishment was required of the trustees.
The NCAA is not in the business of trying criminals. They do not have to wait for a trial. They can cite lack of institutional control and issue violations.
quote:
It's why we have procedure - cool heads and justice rarely prevail when blood is sought swiftly.
Procedure and due process are for criminal trials. The NCAA and Penn State acted on its own. There is no need for procedure here. Enough evidence is there for Penn State to distance itself from Paterno and all involved.
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