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Message
re: Semi Auto pistol: Safety or No Safety
Posted on 6/26/12 at 5:09 pm to fisherbm1112
Posted on 6/26/12 at 5:09 pm to fisherbm1112
quote:Wrong? What's the right/wrong part here?
That he can't be wrong?
Posted on 6/26/12 at 5:10 pm to AlxTgr
Damn, this thread got good in a hurry during dinner..
King Ranch must be busy explaining his 'merican right to open carry
King Ranch must be busy explaining his 'merican right to open carry
Posted on 6/26/12 at 5:11 pm to aVatiger
Someone dissed on King Ranch interiors on another board.
Posted on 6/26/12 at 5:14 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
A mechanical safety is a safety. It does what it does. How it could be used as a crutch I'll never know.
Oh I don't know, perhaps when someone is 'brandishing' it as you put it because they think that safety makes it safe?
Posted on 6/26/12 at 5:16 pm to faxis
quote:If it's on, it won't fire. If it does, someone has a nice lawsuit. I have outstanding coverage.
Oh I don't know, perhaps when someone is 'brandishing' it as you put it because they think that safety makes it safe?
Posted on 6/26/12 at 5:19 pm to AlxTgr
I'm sure their next of kin will find that comforting.
Let me just give you a little advice here. That safety is man made, it can fail. It WILL fail. That's how you need to approach all safeties. Then you don't have to worry about lawyers and morticians.
Let me just give you a little advice here. That safety is man made, it can fail. It WILL fail. That's how you need to approach all safeties. Then you don't have to worry about lawyers and morticians.
Posted on 6/26/12 at 5:23 pm to faxis
I agree with most of that. The WILL is more of the gun people dramatics though. Let me just give you a little advice here. Stop doing that. You might actually help people.
Posted on 6/26/12 at 6:16 pm to AlxTgr
Why don't you explain the situation you keep referring to. Maybe us "nuts" will see your side.
Posted on 6/26/12 at 6:26 pm to Gekko
For CCW I'm a revolver guy. Pull, draw and shoot. So I guess that is a No Safety
Posted on 6/26/12 at 6:52 pm to nvcowboyfan
quote:
For CCW I'm a revolver guy. Pull, draw and shoot. So I guess that is a No Safety
NO WAY!!
What happens if a someone gets a hold of it and pulls the trigger and there's no safety to save them?!?
Posted on 6/26/12 at 7:20 pm to Gekko
My two main pistols are both. Oftentimes the safety seems silly and a waste of time, except with kids around it gives some sense of security, but not enough that I'd leave it around loaded. Hence the issue.
I think one ideal is no safety secured in a retention holster.
I think one ideal is no safety secured in a retention holster.
Posted on 6/26/12 at 7:21 pm to Gekko
No safety unless you're worried somene else might get their hands on it,
or
You're carrying an auto in Condition 1. I would only do this with modern weapons with firing pin safeties.
or
You're carrying an auto in Condition 1. I would only do this with modern weapons with firing pin safeties.
Posted on 6/26/12 at 7:24 pm to Tigah in the ATL
Guess we got some strong opinions on this too.
Has anyone mentioned that a safety is just another thing that can break on the firearm and cause a malfunction.
Has anyone mentioned that a safety is just another thing that can break on the firearm and cause a malfunction.
Posted on 6/26/12 at 7:26 pm to Who Me
quote:Yes. Let's just get rid of them on all guns. The excuses you no safety people will make never stop to amuse me. Is this free?
Has anyone mentioned that a safety is just another thing that can break on the firearm and cause a malfunction
Posted on 6/26/12 at 7:30 pm to Who Me
I'm a threat lvl carrier. Generally, I don't need a safety because the pistol is Condition 3. As the threat level rises the carry level rises. A safety may be handy, but it seems more mental/comfort level than anything.
Posted on 6/26/12 at 7:45 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
The excuses you no safety people will make
What do you mean you people
Posted on 6/26/12 at 7:46 pm to USMCTiger03
quote:
I'm a threat lvl carrier. Generally, I don't need a safety because the pistol is Condition 3. As the threat level rises the carry level rises.
I don't think but a few here will understand that
Posted on 6/26/12 at 8:03 pm to Who Me
AlxTgr,
Quick question.....Where you stand on external safety levers (or what you'll just call a "safety") on self defense semi auto pistols? On page 1 of this thread, you said....
Then near the bottom of page 2, you said...
Which is it?
Quick question.....Where you stand on external safety levers (or what you'll just call a "safety") on self defense semi auto pistols? On page 1 of this thread, you said....
quote:This sounds like you favor the presence of safeties on such guns.
I say yes to a safety because of unintended misuse possibilities.
Then near the bottom of page 2, you said...
quote:This sounds like you don't prefer such guns to have safeties.
In any event, the safety is not for me.
Which is it?
Posted on 6/26/12 at 8:06 pm to Gekko
1. Almost every modern make of semi-auto pistol has one or more internal safeties. For example, Glocks have three of them (although the "trigger safety," like that of the XD, was designed to serve as an "import point" and has little practical benefit).
2. Very few of today's highly respected trainers advocate external safeties for self defense handguns. It's no coincidence that the vast majority carry handguns that have no external safety.
3. Target pistols ... sure. Hunting rifles and shotguns ...sure. Target pistols and hunting weapons aren't carried in holsters.
4. Self-defense handguns should be carried in a holster. And every good holster will cover the trigger. So, in effect, you have an extra external safety right there. Your primary safety is your brain -- and your trigger finger. Follow the 4 universal safety rules and you'll be fine -- and, as was said earlier, "Just don't pull the trigger."
5. Most folks who advocate external safeties have little actual experience and/or training in deploying a self defense handgun. There is a huge practical difference between "being able to switch the safety off" and "being incapable of failing to switch it off." As Givens and Yeager preach, "Amateurs train until they get it right. Professionals train until they can't get it wrong."
6. Fans of external safeties make the (valid) point that it only takes a fraction of a second to make the gun ready to fire. This is true if you get it right the first time, and assumes (in the best case) that you have fractions of a second to spare.
7. Those who have shot in competition have probably seen the guys who, in their first match, screw up on the first few stages. That relatively low level of stress quite often results in people failing to disengage the safety, or flipping the lever in the wrong direction. The penalty in a pistol match is limited to embarrassment and the loss of time on the stage. The penalty in a gunfight is .............. ??
8. If a person is so fearful, or unsure of his own skills and judgment, he probably needs one or more external safeties. If he is squared away (well trained, and practices regularly) he is probably far better off without one.
9. I could be wrong about all of the foregoing. But if I am, based on the overwhelming number of professional trainers who recommend against external safeties, I am in pretty good company.
edited to add: TigerOnTheHill's post on page one is spot on -- as are virtually all of his gun-related posts. I don't know him, but am certain he has had some solid training. It shows. And FWIW I see little, if anything, in Fisherbm1112's posts that's at variance with mainstream doctrine.
2. Very few of today's highly respected trainers advocate external safeties for self defense handguns. It's no coincidence that the vast majority carry handguns that have no external safety.
3. Target pistols ... sure. Hunting rifles and shotguns ...sure. Target pistols and hunting weapons aren't carried in holsters.
4. Self-defense handguns should be carried in a holster. And every good holster will cover the trigger. So, in effect, you have an extra external safety right there. Your primary safety is your brain -- and your trigger finger. Follow the 4 universal safety rules and you'll be fine -- and, as was said earlier, "Just don't pull the trigger."
5. Most folks who advocate external safeties have little actual experience and/or training in deploying a self defense handgun. There is a huge practical difference between "being able to switch the safety off" and "being incapable of failing to switch it off." As Givens and Yeager preach, "Amateurs train until they get it right. Professionals train until they can't get it wrong."
6. Fans of external safeties make the (valid) point that it only takes a fraction of a second to make the gun ready to fire. This is true if you get it right the first time, and assumes (in the best case) that you have fractions of a second to spare.
7. Those who have shot in competition have probably seen the guys who, in their first match, screw up on the first few stages. That relatively low level of stress quite often results in people failing to disengage the safety, or flipping the lever in the wrong direction. The penalty in a pistol match is limited to embarrassment and the loss of time on the stage. The penalty in a gunfight is .............. ??
8. If a person is so fearful, or unsure of his own skills and judgment, he probably needs one or more external safeties. If he is squared away (well trained, and practices regularly) he is probably far better off without one.
9. I could be wrong about all of the foregoing. But if I am, based on the overwhelming number of professional trainers who recommend against external safeties, I am in pretty good company.
edited to add: TigerOnTheHill's post on page one is spot on -- as are virtually all of his gun-related posts. I don't know him, but am certain he has had some solid training. It shows. And FWIW I see little, if anything, in Fisherbm1112's posts that's at variance with mainstream doctrine.
This post was edited on 6/26/12 at 9:16 pm
Posted on 6/26/12 at 8:21 pm to dawg23
quote:
The penalty in a gunfight is .....
How many gunfights do folks that carry get in? I hear this a lot and have never heard of someone in a shootout. I have heard of many grannies defending themselves with dusty 30 year old long guns. Amazing they got the drop on em with the rust and external safety.
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