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Started By
Message
Why are so few automatic pistol cartridges designed with bottle neck cases?
Posted on 5/9/12 at 11:09 pm
Posted on 5/9/12 at 11:09 pm
I was doing some reading on the 357 sig this week and it really seems to make more sense to me than any of the other major semi-auto handgun calibers out there. It seems like it would HAVE to feed better than a standard straight-walled cartridge of similar case diameter.
More case volume while improving feed reliability. Why are more cartridges not designed this way?
For those who are not familiar with the cartridge,
More case volume while improving feed reliability. Why are more cartridges not designed this way?
For those who are not familiar with the cartridge,
3
Posted on 5/9/12 at 11:26 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Posted on 5/9/12 at 11:30 pm to coloradoBengal
:boner:
Posted on 5/9/12 at 11:34 pm to coloradoBengal
I wanna shoot one of those REALLLLLLLLL bad
Posted on 5/9/12 at 11:42 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Guy next to me at the range let me run about 20 rounds through his.
It was pretty goddamn sweet.
It was pretty goddamn sweet.
Posted on 5/10/12 at 7:10 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
I have no idea and always wondered the same thing. I always assumed it was just a move from revolver rounds.
Posted on 5/10/12 at 7:33 am to AlxTgr
There may be a logical reason behind it that i dont know about. It just makes much more sense in a semi-auto to me. I guess when the 9x19 was getting developed they were more worried about stuffing powder under the bullet than feed reliability.
Posted on 5/10/12 at 7:54 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Are we really having feed problems with modern 9x19 weapons? 
Posted on 5/10/12 at 7:55 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
7.62x25 Tokerov
Posted on 5/10/12 at 7:57 am to coloradoBengal
Any semi auto can jam. Seems like a bottle neck cartridge HAS to feed easier than a straight wall.
Posted on 5/10/12 at 8:01 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
what's the difference in a "bottle-beck" cartridge and any semi-auto cartridge, the bullet itself really is a sort of bottle-neck. 
Posted on 5/10/12 at 8:04 am to glock22josh
The case is bottle necked, so more of the cartridge is smaller than the back end of the chamber allowing the round to "funnel" into the barrel more than a straight wall.
Same reason ball ammo feeds better than square end hollow points.
Same reason ball ammo feeds better than square end hollow points.
Posted on 5/10/12 at 8:05 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
Any semi auto can jam. Seems like a bottle neck cartridge HAS to feed easier than a straight wall.
I'm not really disagreeing... but is it a solution to a problem that doesn't exist?
Maybe the higher rate of fire in a fully auto weapon makes a difference? So SMG's that shoot pistol cartridges might enjoy the design difference more?
Posted on 5/10/12 at 8:10 am to coloradoBengal
I mean i would like as much feed reliability as possible, even if the number of FTFs is small for most semis.
Just seems like something that is obvious and makes a ton of sense in my mind. The issues with early 1911's only feeding ball ammo would have never been an issue had it been chambered for a necked cartridge. The bullet design doesnt matter anymore when the bullet is much smaller than the back of the chamber.
Not saying there is a rampant problem with semis not feeding 9x19, but i know everybody would take more reliablility if they could have it.
Just seems like something that is obvious and makes a ton of sense in my mind. The issues with early 1911's only feeding ball ammo would have never been an issue had it been chambered for a necked cartridge. The bullet design doesnt matter anymore when the bullet is much smaller than the back of the chamber.
Not saying there is a rampant problem with semis not feeding 9x19, but i know everybody would take more reliablility if they could have it.
Posted on 5/10/12 at 8:13 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
Not saying there is a rampant problem with semis not feeding 9x19, but i know everybody would take more reliablility if they could have it.
One FTF at the wrong time is enough to be a problem.
Posted on 5/10/12 at 8:22 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Any tool can malfunction and I agree that the more reliability the better. I think a lot of it is quality of the weapon you are feeding. I mostly shoot a Glock and can't remember the last time I had a FTF.
That said, I'd love to have a 5.7 just because
That said, I'd love to have a 5.7 just because
Posted on 5/10/12 at 8:25 am to glock22josh
One issue people have with glocks is how much case support is given up to facilitate feeding of hollow points. and it has lead to blown up guns before. Would have never been necessary with necked cartidges.
Posted on 5/10/12 at 8:26 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
Posted by DownshiftAndFloorIt One issue people have with glocks is how much case support is given up to facilitate feeding of hollow points. and it has lead to blown up guns before. Would have never been necessary with necked cartidges.
Posted on 5/10/12 at 8:45 am to KingRanch
I've given it more thought. I suspect there is simply no need for it once you get over a certain bullet diameter. You see it more with calibers under .40. I suspect to pack more powder. Over that size, the job is being done fine by the amount of powder behind the bullet. Recoil is always a factor.
Posted on 5/10/12 at 9:09 am to AlxTgr
quote:
I suspect there is simply no need for it once you get over a certain bullet diameter
Yea I didn't really think about it up in the larger calibers. A necked .45 would have a stupidly huge case behind the neck and would require a big framed gun that held less ammo. In my mind it's a good trade for the increased feed reliability in the smaller calibers though.
You also get better effciency from necked cartridges and increased velocities for reasons that I do not completely understand from the same bullet diameter and same powder charge. For some reason you get a more complete powder burn.
I'm sure the reliability wouldn't go up much, but I'll trade a sizeable decrease in magazine capacity for a marginal increase in reliability. Hence my chubby for revolvers.
Just seems like something that would be more prevelent. Maybe customers just aren't very receptive to necked ACP cartridges? I know the 357 sig seems to have only been marginally succesfull despite how closly it mimics the .357 magnum full house 125gr load, which is widely regarded as the ultimate manstopper.
ETA: KR, I figured you would like my little stab at glock
This post was edited on 5/10/12 at 9:10 am
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