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Posted on 11/8/11 at 10:48 am to just me
quote:
Saban inherited plenty of talent from Dinardo. Saban wasn't starting from scrath. Not even close.
if he wasn't starting from scratch what was he starting from? You guys need to quit with that Saban inherited a lot of talent from Dinardo BS!! If was inheriting great talent from Dinardo why didn't he win a NC? yeah, he inherited some talent from Dinardo, but nowhere near as what y'all claims he did. when Saban first came down there I remember clear as yesterday him holding a press conference sayin he needed to change the mindset of people from losing to winning, that people had this way of thinkin LSU was not a winner. I like how Miles has this great relationship with the players where they would do anything for him, Saban was different, he had zero tolerance for players making mistakes, Les on the other hand patted players on the butt encouraging them to blow it off and do better next time.
but I do give credit to Saban for changing the culture from losing to winning.
This post was edited on 11/8/11 at 10:50 am
Posted on 11/8/11 at 10:55 am to adono
quote:
No other coach whoever walked the sidelines in Tiger Stadium will have "Coached Two National Championship Teams" next to his name...not Nick Saban, not Paul Dietzel, and certainly not "Cholly Mac".
People who don't know their own history have no identity.
Completely forget about Bernie Moore? He set the table for transitioning LSU football from the "classic era" to the Golden Age.
Mac should get partial credit for Dietz's success - I don't dislike Dietzel, but, he and Saban are very similar personalties - loyal to no one but themselves. Dietzel was a genius and absolutely understood the dynamics of football. However, Mac did win 137 games and 13 bowl appearances. He also had fantastic teams in 62, 64 and 69, as well as the great run from 69 through 73, still the most sustained level of excellence until our more recent teams.
Right now, I have to put Miles at 1. I have Dietzel, McClendon and Saban as 2a, b, and c - resume-wise, for different reasons, just too difficult to differentiate. Bernie Moore is 3 (or 5, depending on how you count my "2"s).
The Miles "clear" #1 ranking is predicated on the assumption that LSU will win the conference and at least play in the big game.
Miles is also slogging towards 75 or 76 wins for a career, by the end of this season. That plus a 7th straight bowl appearance and a possible undefeated season all start to distance him from the others.
This post was edited on 11/8/11 at 10:57 am
Posted on 11/8/11 at 10:56 am to tubucoco
quote:
if he wasn't starting from scratch what was he starting from? You guys need to quit with that Saban inherited a lot of talent from Dinardo BS!! If was inheriting great talent from Dinardo why didn't he win a NC? yeah, he inherited some talent from Dinardo, but nowhere near as what y'all claims he did.
17 of the 25 players that went pro under Saban were Dinardo recruits
they lost cuz of coaching...mostly Tepper...not because of lack of talent
This post was edited on 11/8/11 at 10:58 am
Posted on 11/8/11 at 10:59 am to tubucoco
quote:
You guys need to quit with that Saban inherited a lot of talent from Dinardo BS!!
There was a significant number of outstanding players on the team when Saban took the job. Dinardo did an outstanding job repairing and shoring up the damage done by Archer/Hallman. His 2nd and 3rd seasons were better than 3 of Saban's seasons, and it definitely cannot be argued that he inherited much of anything from Hallman. He reversed the thinking that LSU was done or couldn't win anymore - as early as the "Bring Back the Magic" game against Auburn in '95 and the defeat (the first ever, by the way) of a #1 team, Florida, in '97.
Or did you forget all of that?
This post was edited on 11/8/11 at 11:01 am
Posted on 11/8/11 at 11:00 am to Choctaw
and Saban had much more that that, so what's your point? You guys trying to downplay what Saban did while at LSU is some homo BS! Like said if he had this kind of great talent before arriving like y'all claim, why didn't he win a NC? he inherited good to ok talent, but nowhere near the kind of talent y'all make it to be.
This post was edited on 11/8/11 at 11:02 am
Posted on 11/8/11 at 11:03 am to tubucoco
quote:
and Saban had much more that that, so what's your point? You guys trying to downplay what Saban did while at LSU is some homo BS! Like said if he had this kind of great talent before arriving like y'all claim, why didn't he win a NC?
You're not going to admit that Dinardo inherited a much worse situation in '95 than Saban did in '00? If you do, then, of course he didn't win - too much to be done, plus some of his own decisions doomed him (Tepper, mainly). If you don't, you know that's easily debunked.
Sabanistas are adorable. The ones from Bama have tears that taste like sunshine (I stole that from another poster, but I forget from whom).
Posted on 11/8/11 at 11:03 am to Ace Midnight
quote:coaching has a lot to do with that, if not why didn't Dinardo win a game like that? or did you forget that?
Or did you forget that?
Posted on 11/8/11 at 11:06 am to Ace Midnight
quote:about as much as I hate Saban assholes! who refuse to accept the fact that Saban turned the program around and upgraded the talent there! keep living in dream world, man, I here it's nice there.
Sabanista's are adorable.
at least I have no problem giving the guy his do, you clowns are in denial, and everything is lolly dolly now that the great talent there is winning and has a shot at another NC!
This post was edited on 11/8/11 at 11:09 am
Posted on 11/8/11 at 11:07 am to tubucoco
quote:
Like said if he had this kind of great talent before arriving like y'all claim, why didn't he win a NC?
because he had shitty coaches. you do know it takes more than just talent to win, right.
quote:
he inherited good to ok talent, but nowhere near the kind of talent y'all make it to be.
he inherited 17 future NFL players.
nobody is saying he didn't do great at LSU...im just tired of seeing people swing from his nutsack like he fricking invented LSU football. its pathetic. Miles>>>Saban
This post was edited on 11/8/11 at 11:08 am
Posted on 11/8/11 at 11:11 am to Choctaw
quote:
you do know it takes more than talent to win, right?
I'll stop there because I see there is no more point to this, I have made mine anyways. I guess next you'll be telling me Miles' coaching is superb and has a lot to do with this winning streak we are on! This post was edited on 11/8/11 at 11:12 am
Posted on 11/8/11 at 11:12 am to tubucoco
quote:
and Saban had much more that that, so what's your point? You guys trying to downplay what Saban did while at LSU is some homo BS! Like said if he had this kind of great talent before arriving like y'all claim, why didn't he win a NC? he inherited good to ok talent, but nowhere near the kind of talent y'all make it to be.
Nobody's downplaying Saban here. You need to read the OP and entire thread.
The argument was made the Saban built LSU's program. I, along with several other posters, take issue with that claim, mainly by citing the Hallman era and what following with the work of Gerry DiNardo, who had established what can be considered a foundation for Saban to build on.
Hence, Saban did not start from scratch.
This post was edited on 11/8/11 at 11:13 am
Posted on 11/8/11 at 11:12 am to tubucoco
quote:
about as much as I hate Saban assholes! who refuse to accept the fact that Saban turned the progran around and upgraded the talent there! keep living in dream world, man, I here it's nice ther
Nick Saban is an excellent football coach, regardless of what I think of him as a human being (which is not much). He came in here and did an excellent job for us, one for which he was well compensated. He elevated the (already underway, under Dinardo) repair job to an upgrade and got LSU into conference championship shape, then a BCS run. NONE OF THAT changes the fact that he did NOT start from "nothing" as you Sabanistas repeat as you have been conditioned to.
Miles (i.e. the doofus, the dumbas$$, the moron, the "lucky" guy, the "can't coach" guy) has come into a situation and EXCEEDED what his predecesser did. That's all that can be asked for. He's not a lesser coach because he followed Saban instead of Dinardo. He's had 5 out of 7 seasons superior to 4 of Saban's 5. He's led 5 of the 8 best years of LSU football EVER. You don't have to like it, but that doesn't make it less true. You may have to consider switching teams to Bama - they have the coach you want.
Saban quit on us, quit on the job before it was completely done. He quit on his "dream" of being an NFL coach after only 2 years (that was too tough, dealing with other teams on a more equal footing). He's done a good job at Bama, one for which he is well compensated.
He did not make LSU - LSU made him. If he made LSU, he could have just as easily quit on Michigan State to pursue his "dream" of an NFL job.
Posted on 11/8/11 at 11:17 am to Ace Midnight
dude, I don't want anything. Saban is gone, I could care less. I still follow LSU football because I am a fan of the program there. My fandom has nothing to do with the coaches, I just want to see LSU win and dominate other SEC teams. You are reading me all wrong. but I can admit to Saban turning the program around in the right direction, but you and others cannot do that.
Posted on 11/8/11 at 11:19 am to adono
I will tell you that he has coached toe to toe with Saban every year.
2007 - 41-34 LSU Wins Saban uses inferior team and makes it closer than it should have been. LSU is national champions. Coaching matchup tie
2008 - 27-21 LSU Loses Miles has inferior team and takes him into OT with a freshman qb. Alabama ranked #1 at time Coaching matchup adv. Miles
2009 - 24-15 Scoreboard shows a different game. Conversial Call in 4th quarter hurts LSU. Coaching Matchup tie
2010 - 24-21 LSU wins a tough fought game Coaching Match up - Miles
2011 - 9-6 LSU wins in a close game, Saban makes several bad calls and cost team game. coaching match up Miles
Overall I would say Miles has out coached Saban 3 times and Saban has never out coached Miles.
2007 - 41-34 LSU Wins Saban uses inferior team and makes it closer than it should have been. LSU is national champions. Coaching matchup tie
2008 - 27-21 LSU Loses Miles has inferior team and takes him into OT with a freshman qb. Alabama ranked #1 at time Coaching matchup adv. Miles
2009 - 24-15 Scoreboard shows a different game. Conversial Call in 4th quarter hurts LSU. Coaching Matchup tie
2010 - 24-21 LSU wins a tough fought game Coaching Match up - Miles
2011 - 9-6 LSU wins in a close game, Saban makes several bad calls and cost team game. coaching match up Miles
Overall I would say Miles has out coached Saban 3 times and Saban has never out coached Miles.
This post was edited on 11/8/11 at 11:20 am
Posted on 11/8/11 at 11:23 am to tubucoco
quote:
I guess next you'll be telling me Miles' coaching is superb and has a lot to do with this winning streak we are on!
Anyone who says this would be correct.
Posted on 11/8/11 at 11:24 am to tubucoco
quote:
Saban is gone, I could care less.
Then do.
quote:
I just want to see LSU win and dominate other SEC teams.
Which we're doing.
quote:
You are reading me all wrong.
I've had this battle with you for years. I am not. The reverse might be true.
quote:
can admit to Saban turning the program around in the right direction,
I can, too. He took over a team coming off of back-to-back losing seasons and took them to a conference title in 2 seasons. Amazing work.
(He did not start from "nothing" or "ashes", though.)
quote:
but you and others cannot do that.
I've expressed what I think he did for LSU fairly and objectively, while still expressing my opinion that he is a sub-par human being, a quitter and is not "as good" as everybody says he is. Further, his resume is no better than Miles', a fact that you and many other Sabanistas (most of which are relatively quiet now) simply refuse to consider as possible, let alone a proven fact.
This post was edited on 11/8/11 at 11:26 am
Posted on 11/8/11 at 11:42 am to tubucoco
quote:
I'll stop there because I see there is no more point to this, I have made mine anyways.
figures. we're all agreeing Saban is a great coach dumbass
quote:
I guess next you'll be telling me Miles' coaching is superb and has a lot to do with this winning streak we are on!
So Miles' coaching has nothing to do with all the wins we've had the last 7 years....is that what you're saying?
it amazes me how some people just absolutely refuse to give Miles any credit still to this day. absolutely amazing.
This post was edited on 11/8/11 at 11:55 am
Posted on 11/8/11 at 11:46 am to Choctaw
quote:
figures. we're all agreeing Miles is a great coach dumbass
Chotaw, man, could you have imagined we would have to deal with Sabanistas like tubucoocoo on a week after a win like this? Staring at 10 consecutive (first time since '58)? BCS #1 wire to now? Only really Arkanas and the SEC-E rep between us and New Orleans?
Mind-boggling...
(I'm still not going to let this nonsense go - I address it every time I see it.)
This post was edited on 11/8/11 at 11:47 am
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