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True or False: If you are a top 15 type program...
Posted on 12/12/10 at 12:18 pm
Posted on 12/12/10 at 12:18 pm
there is no excuse for hiring a coach without 1) head coaching experience at a 2) BCS school or NFL and 3) with a winning record. True for me.
I think anything else is a risk to send you into mediocrity. It is all fine to take a young, upcoming coordinator if you are building a program and want to take the risk. But if you are LSU or Florida, it isn't worth the chance. In the 90s: Archer, Hallman, and Dinardo all failed to meet those criteria. Saban and Miles met them and it was almost a sure thing they would be winning coaches.
* I think taking a coach from a top mid-major like Utah, Boise, or TCU is fine too. That worked out with Meyer at Florida...not so much at Colorado.
I think anything else is a risk to send you into mediocrity. It is all fine to take a young, upcoming coordinator if you are building a program and want to take the risk. But if you are LSU or Florida, it isn't worth the chance. In the 90s: Archer, Hallman, and Dinardo all failed to meet those criteria. Saban and Miles met them and it was almost a sure thing they would be winning coaches.
* I think taking a coach from a top mid-major like Utah, Boise, or TCU is fine too. That worked out with Meyer at Florida...not so much at Colorado.
This post was edited on 12/12/10 at 12:23 pm
12
Posted on 12/12/10 at 12:27 pm to lsumatt
False to me,
IMO almost every "great" coach we characterize is great because of where they coach. I honestly feel that 300 coaches in the country at all levels of football could do what Mack Brown does. And I feel like 200 could do what Tressel does and the same with Urban and Saban and Miles.
Is Tressel a better coach than Mangino was, or does Tressel just have the resources and the players to look good?
IMO almost every "great" coach we characterize is great because of where they coach. I honestly feel that 300 coaches in the country at all levels of football could do what Mack Brown does. And I feel like 200 could do what Tressel does and the same with Urban and Saban and Miles.
Is Tressel a better coach than Mangino was, or does Tressel just have the resources and the players to look good?
Posted on 12/12/10 at 12:30 pm to Buckeye06
There are a lot of questions around Muschamp....he has the pedigree but zero HC experience..
could be great...could be a disaster, especially that FSU is a player again on Florida recruiting....depending on who Miami hires, the state of Florida will be a buzzsaw for recruiting in the years to come...
could be great...could be a disaster, especially that FSU is a player again on Florida recruiting....depending on who Miami hires, the state of Florida will be a buzzsaw for recruiting in the years to come...
Posted on 12/12/10 at 12:31 pm to Buckeye06
it's not just coaching, it's managing the program
there are not 300 guys who could run the OSU football machine
even with lots of resources, there are critical decisions that coaches must make to use them. for example...when do you go national in recruiting? that's a major fricking question for all elite programs
there are not 300 guys who could run the OSU football machine
even with lots of resources, there are critical decisions that coaches must make to use them. for example...when do you go national in recruiting? that's a major fricking question for all elite programs
Posted on 12/12/10 at 12:32 pm to Buckeye06
quote:
does Tressel just have the resources and the players to look good?
I think you are proving my point sort of. If a coach goes 7-5 every year at Kansas, Michigan State, or Oklahoma State, then they will surely do even better at Ohio State, Florida, or LSU because of the resources. It is a sure thing.
But obviously some coaches cannot succeed even with the resources. An OC or successful coach and SMU may not cut it at the bigger programs. It is a risk.
This post was edited on 12/12/10 at 12:34 pm
Posted on 12/12/10 at 12:33 pm to athletemed
quote:
could be great...could be a disaster
exactly. I would not at all be surprised if Muschamp turns out to be a superstar coach. But if you have been a a top 5 program for 20 years, is it worth the risk to find out?
Posted on 12/12/10 at 12:36 pm to lsumatt
true for me. even the people who support this hire all recognize it as a *could-be-a-great* one and not a *sure* thing. why take that risk at florida? even if that risk is in your favor, it still is unnecessary----
Posted on 12/12/10 at 12:36 pm to lsumatt
Well Tressel came from a small time program and is successful at OSU, probably running the most consistently good program this decade (USC maybe but they cheated).
Meyer didn't come from a BCS conference but had built 2 other programs from the ground up.
I just think a lot of people could go into these top schools, and by a lot of people I mean good football coaches, and be successful. I don't think where you coached before is a huge deal
Question then for you: Was Auburn's hire 2 years ago better than Florida's last night?
Meyer didn't come from a BCS conference but had built 2 other programs from the ground up.
I just think a lot of people could go into these top schools, and by a lot of people I mean good football coaches, and be successful. I don't think where you coached before is a huge deal
Question then for you: Was Auburn's hire 2 years ago better than Florida's last night?
This post was edited on 12/12/10 at 12:38 pm
Posted on 12/12/10 at 12:38 pm to Buckeye06
quote:
Well Tressel came from a small time program and is successful at OSU, probably running the most consistently good program this decade (USC maybe but they cheated).
Meyer didn't come from a BCS conference but had built 2 other programs from the ground up.
I just think a lot of people could go into these top schools, and by a lot of people I mean good football coaches, and be successful. I don't think where you coached before is a huge deal
this is one of the most confusing, odd posts ive ever read. you site other coaches who had previous head coaching experience and then conclude that that previous head coaching experience is unnecessary. what?
Posted on 12/12/10 at 12:39 pm to RightKindaGuy
I was quoting the original poster who said "BCS or NFL experience"
I don't think you need head coaching positions at either of those levels to be a great BCS coach
I don't think you need head coaching positions at either of those levels to be a great BCS coach
Posted on 12/12/10 at 12:40 pm to Buckeye06
but tressell and meyer showed they could run a program at a lower level than the BCS
Posted on 12/12/10 at 12:41 pm to Buckeye06
quote:
Tressel came from a small time program and is successful at OSU
I in no way suggested that these coaches "can't" work out. In fact, every Hall of Fame coach has to start somewhere. I just suggested it isn't worth the risk. I think I am not getting my point across.
quote:
Meyer didn't come from a BCS conference but had built 2 other programs from the ground up.
Utah wasn't a top 15 program. Good for them for taking a risk and making it work. They became a near elite program and I lumped Utah in with "BCS conferences" because they made a BCS bowl. And Meyer didn't build Florida from the ground up.
This post was edited on 12/12/10 at 12:48 pm
Posted on 12/12/10 at 12:41 pm to lsumatt
quote:there are no sure things in coaching hires. everyone thought rich rod was a slam dunk at meeechigan. 3 years later, hes a disaster. he fit your mold. he failed.
f a coach goes 7-5 every year at Kansas, Michigan State, or Oklahoma State, then they will surely do even better at Ohio State, Florida, or LSU because of the resources. It is a sure thing.
Posted on 12/12/10 at 12:42 pm to lsumatt
It's a risk, but Florida had been more successful than LSU the last 3 years. Miles has done nothing meaningful as far a divisional and conference titles in 3 years. I will defer to a more successful program here.
Posted on 12/12/10 at 12:42 pm to Angry LLAMA
No I understand what you're saying matt and I just don't agree.
Will you answer the question about Chizik? In your argument, it seems that you think that was a "better" hire or a more "sure" thing?
Edit: I guess he actually had a losing record or close to it however
And w meyer i was referring to Utah and Bowling Green
Will you answer the question about Chizik? In your argument, it seems that you think that was a "better" hire or a more "sure" thing?
Edit: I guess he actually had a losing record or close to it however
And w meyer i was referring to Utah and Bowling Green
This post was edited on 12/12/10 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 12/12/10 at 12:45 pm to peopleschamp
quote:
It's a risk, but Florida had been more successful than LSU the last 3 years. Miles has done nothing meaningful as far a divisional and conference titles in 3 years. I will defer to a more successful program here.
i think miles at florida would be dominant right now. the east is kind of down and he'd light that shite up
Posted on 12/12/10 at 12:47 pm to Buckeye06
quote:
Was Auburn's hire 2 years ago better than Florida's last night?
I thought Chizik was a terrible hire because it was a high risk - he had a LOSING record at Iowa State. It seemed to work out really well which is possible with any risk. I just don't think Florida can afford o find out with their new hire
Posted on 12/12/10 at 12:50 pm to lsumatt
The one that Muschamp has over other coordinators is that he's worked under many different HCs as opposed to, say, Josh McDaniels, for instance.
He's seen a lot of different styles under various bosses and is not just stuck into some sort of a mold.
Plus, you'd have to think his youth is a factor is UF's decision after having a HC with some health-related issues. If he is successful, he could conceivably be at UF for years.
He's seen a lot of different styles under various bosses and is not just stuck into some sort of a mold.
Plus, you'd have to think his youth is a factor is UF's decision after having a HC with some health-related issues. If he is successful, he could conceivably be at UF for years.
Posted on 12/12/10 at 12:52 pm to lsumatt
formulas, formulas, formulas.... there is no formula for hiring hc's, for hiring anyone in fact. oh, there are parameters and criteria, but no formulas. both dinardo and hallman were successful coaches at div 1 schools so you shot your own theory out of the water. as far as uf goes, they have a program that can survive a mediocre hire and muschamp may indeed turn out that way. but who knows? pelini turned out pretty good for nebraska; fischer turned out good for fsu. you just don't know. i think if muschamp can hire good assts, he'll be fine. he knows what it takes to win football games.
Posted on 12/12/10 at 12:53 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
but tressell and meyer showed they could run a program at a lower level than the BCS
I don't think BCS experience is necessary, but winning HC experience should be a prerequisite to any big time hire. I think the 'running a program' aspect is more important than where they actually did it.
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