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Message
re: USA vs. England Match Thread: 1:30 CT Rustenburg, Starters Out
Posted on 6/12/10 at 7:15 pm to adammwilson
Posted on 6/12/10 at 7:15 pm to adammwilson
A draw to open with your toughest opponents in a group is a good result the way world cup groups work, because you're denying your opponent 3 points. Teams go through with three points by getting three draws from time to time, but never from winning one and losing two.
I didn't think the US played all that well tbh, I definitely think they can do better than that, apart from a 10 minute spell after England's goal. Donovan stood out individually, as did the pace of Findley. Altidore (think it was him) should've scored that shot which Robert Green managed to nudge off on to the post, you won't get a goalkeeper out of place that often. The goal was from a nothing shot, had it been top corner then fine, but keepers should save those all day, and had this happened I expect the US having to (eventually) over commit would lead to their downfall when hit on the counter with the pace of Rooney and Lennon.
As for England, it was ok, but yet again we've reverted to simple lump it up the park football. It's not going to work if we get into the latter stages, it goes over our biggest attacking threats, and teams like Spain, Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Holland etc just aren't going to give the ball back if we keep lumping it up. Green needs to be benched, he's not a great shot stopper, his strength is supposed to be consistency, but it hasn't been this season and the Dempsey goal was one of several occasions where he was out of position. Other than that it was generally positive, apart from Lampard and Rooney, neither of whom were really in the game too much, but part of that was down to how we played. I would've preferred to see Cole come on for Milner, as we could've used a player who can slow the pace of the game down and not give away the ball at that point in the match. Thought Heskey had a fantastic game other than his one on one, Gerrard was everywhere and the control and finish for the goal was very clever, Glen Johnson looked a real threat at all times. SWP was a bit of out place and although Lennon impressed some I think he had a few poor first touches where a world class player wouldn't have, which lead to his following on crosses not being fantastic.
I think we'll look a lot better with Barry back in the team.
I didn't think the US played all that well tbh, I definitely think they can do better than that, apart from a 10 minute spell after England's goal. Donovan stood out individually, as did the pace of Findley. Altidore (think it was him) should've scored that shot which Robert Green managed to nudge off on to the post, you won't get a goalkeeper out of place that often. The goal was from a nothing shot, had it been top corner then fine, but keepers should save those all day, and had this happened I expect the US having to (eventually) over commit would lead to their downfall when hit on the counter with the pace of Rooney and Lennon.
As for England, it was ok, but yet again we've reverted to simple lump it up the park football. It's not going to work if we get into the latter stages, it goes over our biggest attacking threats, and teams like Spain, Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Holland etc just aren't going to give the ball back if we keep lumping it up. Green needs to be benched, he's not a great shot stopper, his strength is supposed to be consistency, but it hasn't been this season and the Dempsey goal was one of several occasions where he was out of position. Other than that it was generally positive, apart from Lampard and Rooney, neither of whom were really in the game too much, but part of that was down to how we played. I would've preferred to see Cole come on for Milner, as we could've used a player who can slow the pace of the game down and not give away the ball at that point in the match. Thought Heskey had a fantastic game other than his one on one, Gerrard was everywhere and the control and finish for the goal was very clever, Glen Johnson looked a real threat at all times. SWP was a bit of out place and although Lennon impressed some I think he had a few poor first touches where a world class player wouldn't have, which lead to his following on crosses not being fantastic.
I think we'll look a lot better with Barry back in the team.
2
Posted on 6/12/10 at 7:17 pm to Mephistopheles
quote:
I think we'll look a lot better with Barry back in the team.
agreed. I'm excited for his return. when will he be back?
Posted on 6/12/10 at 7:54 pm to adammwilson
Should be ok to play friday I think.
Posted on 6/12/10 at 7:55 pm to Mephistopheles
quote:
Should be ok to play friday I think.
Damn. If only he would have played today.
Posted on 6/12/10 at 7:59 pm to Mephistopheles
quote:
Glen Johnson
Was IMO the most threating England player for the match.
Posted on 6/12/10 at 8:47 pm to adammwilson
adam at 6:09 PM
adam at 6:22 PM
quote:
America looked like shite.
adam at 6:22 PM
quote:
you guys played very well
Posted on 6/12/10 at 9:17 pm to glassman
Here's my player rankings for the USMNT after this match. The recurring theme is "playing your role in the scheme".
Howard - 9.5 - Man of the match. He pretty much did what he needed to do to preserve the draw, even when he wasn't being helped out in certain situations. Can't get the full 10 because he didn't get the clean sheet, but there's always the next two matches for that.
Cherundolo - 8.5 - He was involved in the attack in the first half, but had to play a more conservative role after picking up a yellow card in the 39th minute. Even still, he mostly locked down his fourth of the back line and helped slide over then Bocanegra went forward later in the match.
DeMerit - 7.5 - His touch isn't great, his speed isn't world class, and his passing leaves much to be desired, but this guy plays solid defense for the USMNT when we need it. Had to play carefully after picking up a yellow card in the 47th minute, but he still got the job done. For most of the match, Jay could say "Wayne who?"
Onyewu - 6.5 - His speed and jumping ability are still hampered after recovering from his injury, but those things are improving each time he sees the pitch. He did have a lapse early which directly contributed to England's goal, and he did wander a bit farther forward that his position normally calls for in a few situations, but he got better as the game went on. When he had to go one on one with Rooney late, he really had to test the knee and seemed to come away fine. If he gets confidence that he's recovered, he should be ready to go into beast mode soon.
Bocanegra - 7 - The cap'n may not have a great deal of speed, and he may be a bit of a liability against the fastest right wingers in the world, but he's a technically sound player who brings loads of experience and leadership to the team. His offensive role was limited, but Bob Ball was in effect so it was going to be limited by design.
Dempsey - 7.5 - Clint didn't have the best game offensively, but he got a ball onto and through Green's hands when it counted. His defensive plays weren't always direct, but he played a big role in breaking up some attacks when it was needed. He looked to be tired near the end of the match (a disturbingly recurring theme in recent national team appearances), and probably would have been better served moving forward earlier than he did if Papa Bradley would have subbed earlier.. but you can't fault Dempsey for the tactics. Don't tread.
Clark - 5.5 - Clark was caught doing a bit of ball watching on the England goal, but Onyewu should have either stayed in position or marked Rooney tighter (if he physically could have) to help the situation. Other than that, Clark played his role today. The problem is, he's probably the third best option to play that role (not including Baby Bradley, who was on the pitch). Clark held his position, and he bent but didn't break against some pretty good talent, but he could have done more by disrupting passing lanes and being more active. He can't be blamed for getting the start, but he should have been subbed at half for Torres (for an attempt at more possession in the midfield) or near the 60th minute for Edu (for more skilled defensive play, fresher legs, and a different look to try and slow down the frantic English attack to start the second half).
Bradley - 6.5 - Bradley played well defensively, but was fairly atrocious when it came to delivering the ball to his teammates and controlling possession through the midfield. If Ricardo Clark is going to be the partner in the middle, Baby Bradley had damned well better be able to string some passes through. When we weren't playing Bob Ball, our possession was getting choked due to bad passes in the middle. Still, as with Clark, solid work helping to contain some very talented players for the majority of the match.
Donovan - 7 - Donovan wasn't able to do much offensively in this game, but he did do quite a bit of backtracking to help shore up the defense and break up English possession where he could. If he could have gotten some better service through the midfield, he could have helped orchestrate more pressure against the English back line. You can't exactly say he disappeared in the big game, he just wasn't as visible in the attack as fans would have liked to have seen because he was playing his role within the scheme.
Findley - 6 - Findley's speed was mostly a non-factor, but it's not his fault he was started instead of brought on as a super sub option around the 70th minute once the English defense was worn down. He picked up a yellow in the 74th minute, after he was mostly gassed and not being utilized at all anymore. He may not be a player who will win you a world title, and he's certainly not a replacement for Charlie Davies, but he does bring some things to the table that are useful tools to the team... the tools just have to be used properly.
Altidore - 7.5 - If his shot that Green saved off the post had gone in and all else had remained equal, Jozy would have been the hero of the day. As it was, he played a huge role as a holding forward, a physical forward, a ball distributor, a harassing defender on the English side of the pitch, and even at times a speedy forward (relative to the competition). Having re-watched the game, Jozy was the heart of the offense in this particular match. If he had been paired with Buddle from the start and had Findley come on as a super sub, Jozy would have gotten the Yanks another goal. Watch out for this man in the next two matches.
subs
Buddle - 6 - Came on for Findley in the 77th minute. He didn't get a lot of time to work with, and the tactics had turned to full-on Bob Ball by the time he did find the pitch. But he put in a good 20 minutes to replace a tired Findley when he was called on, and did what he was supposed to do in the scheme. Maybe Buddle and Findley should have been brought into play in the opposite order. Just saying.
Holden - n/a - Came on for Altidore in the 86th, and took Dempsey's spot in midfield while Dempsey moved forward to Altidore's spot. Holden didn't really have enough time to make an impact or to really get into a groove. He missed a pass from Baby Bradley to lose possession at one point, had a few bad touches after that, and then seemed to start to settle in in the too-little-too-late attempt at starting up some possession and attack at the dying moments of the game. Could have shown more if he had been subbed in 5 to 10 minutes earlier.
Gomez - n/a - Didn't see the field until stoppage time. Congratulations, you've been capped for the USMNT in the World Cup finals.
Honorable Mention: Green.
No, seriously.
Howard - 9.5 - Man of the match. He pretty much did what he needed to do to preserve the draw, even when he wasn't being helped out in certain situations. Can't get the full 10 because he didn't get the clean sheet, but there's always the next two matches for that.
Cherundolo - 8.5 - He was involved in the attack in the first half, but had to play a more conservative role after picking up a yellow card in the 39th minute. Even still, he mostly locked down his fourth of the back line and helped slide over then Bocanegra went forward later in the match.
DeMerit - 7.5 - His touch isn't great, his speed isn't world class, and his passing leaves much to be desired, but this guy plays solid defense for the USMNT when we need it. Had to play carefully after picking up a yellow card in the 47th minute, but he still got the job done. For most of the match, Jay could say "Wayne who?"
Onyewu - 6.5 - His speed and jumping ability are still hampered after recovering from his injury, but those things are improving each time he sees the pitch. He did have a lapse early which directly contributed to England's goal, and he did wander a bit farther forward that his position normally calls for in a few situations, but he got better as the game went on. When he had to go one on one with Rooney late, he really had to test the knee and seemed to come away fine. If he gets confidence that he's recovered, he should be ready to go into beast mode soon.
Bocanegra - 7 - The cap'n may not have a great deal of speed, and he may be a bit of a liability against the fastest right wingers in the world, but he's a technically sound player who brings loads of experience and leadership to the team. His offensive role was limited, but Bob Ball was in effect so it was going to be limited by design.
Dempsey - 7.5 - Clint didn't have the best game offensively, but he got a ball onto and through Green's hands when it counted. His defensive plays weren't always direct, but he played a big role in breaking up some attacks when it was needed. He looked to be tired near the end of the match (a disturbingly recurring theme in recent national team appearances), and probably would have been better served moving forward earlier than he did if Papa Bradley would have subbed earlier.. but you can't fault Dempsey for the tactics. Don't tread.
Clark - 5.5 - Clark was caught doing a bit of ball watching on the England goal, but Onyewu should have either stayed in position or marked Rooney tighter (if he physically could have) to help the situation. Other than that, Clark played his role today. The problem is, he's probably the third best option to play that role (not including Baby Bradley, who was on the pitch). Clark held his position, and he bent but didn't break against some pretty good talent, but he could have done more by disrupting passing lanes and being more active. He can't be blamed for getting the start, but he should have been subbed at half for Torres (for an attempt at more possession in the midfield) or near the 60th minute for Edu (for more skilled defensive play, fresher legs, and a different look to try and slow down the frantic English attack to start the second half).
Bradley - 6.5 - Bradley played well defensively, but was fairly atrocious when it came to delivering the ball to his teammates and controlling possession through the midfield. If Ricardo Clark is going to be the partner in the middle, Baby Bradley had damned well better be able to string some passes through. When we weren't playing Bob Ball, our possession was getting choked due to bad passes in the middle. Still, as with Clark, solid work helping to contain some very talented players for the majority of the match.
Donovan - 7 - Donovan wasn't able to do much offensively in this game, but he did do quite a bit of backtracking to help shore up the defense and break up English possession where he could. If he could have gotten some better service through the midfield, he could have helped orchestrate more pressure against the English back line. You can't exactly say he disappeared in the big game, he just wasn't as visible in the attack as fans would have liked to have seen because he was playing his role within the scheme.
Findley - 6 - Findley's speed was mostly a non-factor, but it's not his fault he was started instead of brought on as a super sub option around the 70th minute once the English defense was worn down. He picked up a yellow in the 74th minute, after he was mostly gassed and not being utilized at all anymore. He may not be a player who will win you a world title, and he's certainly not a replacement for Charlie Davies, but he does bring some things to the table that are useful tools to the team... the tools just have to be used properly.
Altidore - 7.5 - If his shot that Green saved off the post had gone in and all else had remained equal, Jozy would have been the hero of the day. As it was, he played a huge role as a holding forward, a physical forward, a ball distributor, a harassing defender on the English side of the pitch, and even at times a speedy forward (relative to the competition). Having re-watched the game, Jozy was the heart of the offense in this particular match. If he had been paired with Buddle from the start and had Findley come on as a super sub, Jozy would have gotten the Yanks another goal. Watch out for this man in the next two matches.
subs
Buddle - 6 - Came on for Findley in the 77th minute. He didn't get a lot of time to work with, and the tactics had turned to full-on Bob Ball by the time he did find the pitch. But he put in a good 20 minutes to replace a tired Findley when he was called on, and did what he was supposed to do in the scheme. Maybe Buddle and Findley should have been brought into play in the opposite order. Just saying.
Holden - n/a - Came on for Altidore in the 86th, and took Dempsey's spot in midfield while Dempsey moved forward to Altidore's spot. Holden didn't really have enough time to make an impact or to really get into a groove. He missed a pass from Baby Bradley to lose possession at one point, had a few bad touches after that, and then seemed to start to settle in in the too-little-too-late attempt at starting up some possession and attack at the dying moments of the game. Could have shown more if he had been subbed in 5 to 10 minutes earlier.
Gomez - n/a - Didn't see the field until stoppage time. Congratulations, you've been capped for the USMNT in the World Cup finals.
Honorable Mention: Green.
No, seriously. Posted on 6/12/10 at 9:19 pm to uway
Uway I was talking about the 1st half in the 1st post.
This post was edited on 6/12/10 at 9:21 pm
Posted on 6/12/10 at 9:35 pm to CrazyTigerFan
quote:
Here's my player rankings for the USMNT after this match
Solid post.
Re: MB, he CAN play a lot better distribution-wise, so I'm not too worried about him.
I'm not worried about much of anything right now, tbh. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the worst we play in the tournament.
We definitely looked more composed and skilled against the Turks and the Soccerroos. The atmosphere + first-game pressure + intimidating opponent had us playing really shaky early. Then we were playing catch-up until the goal. Then we played for the tie. All in all, if you can have an off day as a team and draw England, that means good things are in store. Just my Ameritard opinion.
Posted on 6/13/10 at 3:53 pm to uway
quote:
Arshavin_onweb England - USA. It will be very interesting game. go go go England !!!
You are dead to me Arshavin. You are fricking dead.
until August at least.
Posted on 6/13/10 at 4:09 pm to adammwilson
quote:
If we have any other keeper back there this would have been a U.S. loss.
BUT YOU DON'T. Your country isnt good enough to produce a keeper better than that piece of shite? If so, that's hilarious and you don't deserve to advance past the round of 16. People are so quick to just look at the games as a indication of their country's soccer skill. Well picking a lineup is also part of it. If you would've had Tim Howard back there you would've won.
But guess what? You don't.
Your keeper sucks and you were exposed because of it. You'll be exposed again, so get used to it. A team is only as good as their weakest link, and when that link is your GK, face it: you're fricked.
Posted on 6/13/10 at 4:10 pm to glassman
quote:
Sometimes luck plays a part in the result. I will take it.
Luck? Green sucks and everyone knows it. We should've been taking shots like that all night. We just might've won if we would have...
Posted on 6/13/10 at 4:10 pm to thenry712
quote:
You are dead to me Arshavin. You are fricking dead.
Maybe Euro/EPL loyalty... or he's just stupid.
Posted on 6/13/10 at 5:42 pm to BleedPurpleGold
quote:
You'll be exposed again, so get used to it. A team is only as good as their weakest link, and when that link is your GK, face it: you're fricked.
we shall see. I guarantee you David James is a better keeper than that shite.
Posted on 6/13/10 at 5:46 pm to adammwilson
I do too. Personally, I was astounded (and really happy) that you guys started Green. I thought for certain Hart was the better choice. Hopefully Capello realizes that soon because I'd like to see England finally get the monkey off their back and win it again. They deserve to.
Posted on 6/13/10 at 5:48 pm to BleedPurpleGold
quote:
I was astounded that you guys started Green.
I was as well.
quote:
thought for certain Hart was the better choice.
He was but he is just so young.
I think he will go with James
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